limp behind w/ T7s on BU...

[WeldPhaser]

I'm not limping much, but this seemed like a good spot to do so.

Villain is a 60/5 calling station. I only need another $.96 cents to call, but if a 9 doesn't pop on the turn I'm probably facing a .50 bet .....

So, Since I'm 99% he's stacking off here, should I call????


Revolution Gaming Network - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

CO: $1.68
Hero (BTN): $2.25
SB: $2.01
BB: $2.64
UTG: $2.00
MP: $2.99

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has T 7

fold, MP calls $0.04, fold, Hero calls $0.04, SB calls $0.02, BB checks

Flop: ($0.16, 4 players) J 8 4
SB checks, BB bets $0.16, fold, fold, fold

BB wins $0.15

[MadMojoMonkey]

Good fold. Your patience will reward you with better spots which you can play with confidence.

I don't know how you got the $0.96. With 4 outs, you are 11:1 against to catch your draw on the turn. The implied odds equation:
ESS > 11*$0.16 - $0.32
ESS > $1.44
You would need to get an additional $1.44 into the pot that is not your chips to make a 0EV play. You need more than that to make this play profitable.

[WeldPhaser]

Good fold. Your patience will reward you with better spots which you can play with confidence.

I don't know how you got the $0.96. With 4 outs, you are 11:1 against to catch your draw on the turn. The implied odds equation:
ESS > 11*$0.16 - $0.32
ESS > $1.44
You would need to get an additional $1.44 into the pot that is not your chips to make a 0EV play. You need more than that to make this play profitable.

oh, ok... I was think on a Turn and river basis... thinking w/ four outs, I had 16% equity, and w/ 16% equity i times flop bet by 6 .16 x 6 = .96

But I guess w/ implied odds ya have to go street to street huh?

[MadMojoMonkey]

You only count both streets when a single bet buys 2 streets of cards. As in, an all-in call on the flop.

[rpm]

raise > call pre unless one of the blinds is going to be 3betting you a lot. as played flop is a fold because we only make our hand something like 9% of the time on the turn and villain probably won't necessarily put all the money in as liberally as you may think he will.

[rpm]

this one helped me out when i was struggling to get my head around this concept.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ws-173190.html

[WeaselT]

agreed raise>limp, but with the stationy fellas there that are stacking off so liberally, fold pre and save yourself the trouble. Plan your hand PF based on the table dynamics yo. I'm not saying you shouldnt occasionally limp that sh!t from the BU, but if you are that lost on the flop, dump it PF.

[rpm]

they have to catch a pair before they can stack off. isoing this is very standard imo versus someone who will limp/call such a wide range and be forced to c/f so many flops

[d0zer]

This hand is much better to play with deeper stacks. Another reason 50bbing sucks.

[daven]

this should be a fold pre for you 50bb deep

[rpm]

i should add that i don't play shorter than 100bb stack and so am not sensitive to the strategic adjustments required to do so. thus my posts in this thread could well be made of horse shit.

[WeldPhaser]

i should add that i don't play shorter than 100bb stack and so am not sensitive to the strategic adjustments required to do so. thus my posts in this thread could well be made of horse shit.

I wouldn't go and call your advice horse shit here. I myself am not to fond of the shallow tables either, but I'm rolled pretty short right now, and unfortunately can't reload at the moment. But, I'm grinding my way up, and should be 100bb'ing very soon.

So when playing 50bb, should I even really consider these Sc type hands???????

[OngBonga]

50bb tables are for those frightened of implied odds.

[WeldPhaser]

50bb tables are for those frightened of implied odds.

I'm surely not frightened of implied odds. I was just not rolled for the 100bb tables at the time..

So, you can poke fun if you like, It really matters little. If you wanna give my micro-betting ass advice or not.

I would prefer advice though....

[rpm]

i was thinking about this hand yesterday while i was doing something less interesting than poker. i actually think it's fine to still isolate this hand vs this guy 50bb deep and plan to just fire one on the flop and be done with it unless we improve to a hand we want to valuebet or we pick up a really good barrel card. i mean he's going to be limp/calling pre and check/foliding flop often enough to warrant one and done imo. could be wrong.

[WeldPhaser]

i was thinking about this hand yesterday while i was doing something less interesting than poker. i actually think it's fine to still isolate this hand vs this guy 50bb deep and plan to just fire one on the flop and be done with it unless we improve to a hand we want to valuebet or we pick up a really good barrel card. i mean he's going to be limp/calling pre and check/foliding flop often enough to warrant one and done imo. could be wrong.

So, we can float here IP, re-evaluate turn, if we spike on the turn, should we 3-bet if he fires, or just call, is a 9 a scare card to a 60/5???

[rpm]

So, we can float here IP, re-evaluate turn, if we spike on the turn, should we 3-bet if he fires, or just call, is a 9 a scare card to a 60/5???

thats not what i meant, no. i was kind of continuing on with the question of whether to raise/fold/call preflop and my point was that i think this hand will be +EV to isolate our fish planning to Cbet and take it down a lot on flops (ie cbetting the flop then giving up if called, "one and done") because he will be forced to fold so many flops because his range is so wide/weak to get to the flop. if that makes any sense.

[bikes]

lol none of u know how to play 50bb stacks.

[WeldPhaser]

lol none of u know how to play 50bb stacks.

Ha, Your probably def right bikes, but I've been stomping them pretty good at this level... Maybe that's not saying to much, but I'm happy bout it.......

Young the Giant - My Body(sweet song) check em out

[OngBonga]

I haven't a clue what adjustments I'd need to make to play 50bb tables. I can't see setmining being profitable, I know that much. Also, calling draws at a bad price on the flop becomes a lot worse. But when it comes to exploiting others, I'm lost. I guess make them pay to see flops with pocket pairs, make them pay to see draws. Bluff less. I guess.

Weld, sorry if my tone came across as mockery, that wasn't intended, I was just making the point that you're sacrificing 50bb worth of implied odds by playing these tables.

[WeldPhaser]

I haven't a clue what adjustments I'd need to make to play 50bb tables. I can't see setmining being profitable, I know that much. Also, calling draws at a bad price on the flop becomes a lot worse. But when it comes to exploiting others, I'm lost. I guess make them pay to see flops with pocket pairs, make them pay to see draws. Bluff less. I guess.

Weld, sorry if my tone came across as mockery, that wasn't intended, I was just making the point that you're sacrificing 50bb worth of implied odds by playing these tables.

No prob, I Surely don't like 50bb's either, , There's what you mentioned on the implied odds, 3b' defense becomes tougher cause a 4b' is essentially an AI. Bluffing is tough for sure unless it's your average c-bet w/ AJ-Ak on low flop.

[bikes]

pre is good.

fold flop.

[OngBonga]

I've been thinking about these 50bb games a little, I'm thinking playing strong draws aggressively becomes more profitable. Our fold equity doesn't change too much, but when we find our shove with nfd getting called, we lose less because we're shallower. I'm a maniac with combo draws even 200bb deep, but I'd be even more so half stacked.

Bluffing with air seems crazy, but semi bluffing seems good.

[WeldPhaser]

I've been thinking about these 50bb games a little, I'm thinking playing strong draws aggressively becomes more profitable. Our fold equity doesn't change too much, but when we find our shove with nfd getting called, we lose less because we're shallower. I'm a maniac with combo draws even 200bb deep, but I'd be even more so half stacked.

Bluffing with air seems crazy, but semi bluffing seems good.

I actually see I decent amount of 3b' flops folded here. There is one guy who is pretty ballsy, but I noticed he's pretty much playing big pot poker.(open ra' is around 1/8 effective stack), usually .25/.30 , he just jams any piece of the flop. He must be losing over all, but he builds his stack up 500-600bb's some nights.....If he wasn't so spazzy, I bet he'd be in the positive or close.