Did either player misplay this hand?

[drtofu66]

Just wanted some opinion on this MTT hand (it's a $5k freeroll with 400 entrants through a RB affiliate if that adjusts your thinking).

I'm not sure about either players' play, so I will just lay out the situation and the cards.

Player 1 (MP3 with 6365) has :As: :Jc:
Player 2 (UTG with 9900 in chips) has :Kd: :Jd:
We're down to about 60 players left. Payout is not posted yet, but may be around 45th or so is my guess.
Blinds: 75/150

Preflop: Player 2 calls, folds to Player 1 who raises to 500, fold to button (with 12k in chips) calls.

Pot 1725
Flop: :Js:

UTG checks, MP3 bets 1700, Button folds, UTG calls. (Pot 5125)

Turn: :Qs:

UTG Checks, MP3 bets 5125 (leaving 40 behind, so the hand's over here), UTG calls (leaving him with 2575).

Comments?

[Percival]

I'd like to reply to this and see if I can get it right. First of all, UTG limped in with a so-so hand out of position. MP3 raises 3xbb showing some strength and the Button calls this. UTG will now be out of position on every play after this. Flop comes showing some promise with top pair and a decent flush draw. I get a little unsure of myself here, but I like to bet maybe half the pot to see where I stand. That didn' happen though so following the original play, I see a bet the size of the pot I have to start doing some math. With MP3's PFR of 3xbb I put him on at least AQs. AA, KK, QQ and JJ are possible but with the flush draw I would expect a higher bet to get everyone out. 10 10 is also possible but again I would think he would bet a little higher to scare some people off. AKs with diamonds is not possible. Calling the bet here causes UTG to put in 30% of the pot. He has 2 J's, 3K's that can help him. 20% chance if it goes to the river with no more bets which is unlikeley. Again, bad odds so fold. The Queen on the turn is another scare card for me.

Just the thoughts of a newbie, any corrections to this thinking are both welcome and encouraged.

[swiggidy]

There is a lot of information missing; how the two players have been playing, how the table has been playing, etc. Given that it's a freeroll I guess you could assume everyone is clueless.

KJ at a full table is an easy fold pre-flop. If the table is passive and bad limping is OK I guess. A raise to 600 is ideal, I guess 500 isn't terrible. Checking to the pre-flop raiser is standard. Flop bet is fine, he's left with PSB and sending the message that he's playing for stacks, which he is. Push over this bet, don't call. Turn plays itself.

Percival, your raising range is way to tight, otherwise fine.

[Sprayed]

KJs limped UTG is bad. AJo raise after an UTG limper is ok if MP knows that UTG limps garbage from this position. Personanly, in this spot I'm not getting too crazy with AJo.

As played, the check by UTG is ok since he has TP + FD. I would just shove over MP's bet on the flop. Chances are MP will call since he showed strength pre and post.

[drtofu66]

As far as reads go, I just got moved to this table, so I had nothing to go on.

I was player 1 with AJo. I'm just trying to take away a lesson from this hand if there was one. The only one I have so far is to raise more PF. The raise to only 500 gave the button a fairly cheap call with position which in turn gave UTG a cheap call with suited broadway (though given how the hand played out, I don't think another 100 to call PF would have gotten this guy to fold).

I thought about dumping this PF, but it was close to the bubble and I still had enough chips to hurt someone. Maybe lesson2 is to dump marginal hands and observe people for a while before getting involved when new to a table.

Once the flop came, I hit my hand as well as I could expect, so I don't see what I could have done differently. Maybe it's just from playing 10NL/PL so much, but from the action on the flop I had him on a FD (I just didn't stop to consider that he might have Jdxd and would have more than 9 outs against me. Lesson #3 I guess). I didn't like the Qs coming on the turn but when he checked to me I thought I c0uld move him off this hand by going all in even if he had a FD. In a cash game I think I actually check behind the turn to try and SD cheap, as QdJd easily checks to me to do the betting for them and a lot of people will limp-call KQ UTG--especially KQs. I thought things would be tighter in a MTT and I could move him off a FD if I got it all in. Ugh, I just ran it on Poker stove-- I'm actually a slight dog vs KdQd and only a slight favorite vs KdJd and QdJd on the flop (not to mention a massive dog vs 22/88). Once the turn brought the Qs, I probably should have tried to SD cheap. Of course, when the river 3d came I'd be bitching about how I didn't price him off his draw Then again, I wouldn't have been crippled after this hand had I been more cautious. Fnord does say something to the effect that in tournies, pushing small edges often takes a backseat to survival. No truer words, in this case.

As far as player 2 goes (and I don't want to be one of those OMG HOW COULD YOU CALL THAT?!?! jerks), I don't think I could have made the call with 2nd pair and 2nd nut FD unless it's VERY late and the blinds are higher. Is calling a turn push here a good call or at best a marginal one? I just wonder if I'm being too weak-tight by thinking I'd fold KdJd here.

[ville18]

loldonkaments :<

[Sprayed]

Ok, let's say he's a thinking player, which I would think that he's not considering the KJs limp UTG, but that's irrelevant. What would someone raise after a limper (a limper UTG no less)? I would put you on 99+, AJs+, AJo+, KQs, KQo. The AJ and 99 are close, but in a freeroll I throw those in there and maybe KQ. Here are the stove numbers:

Board: 2d Js 8d
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 75.0013 % 74.94% 00.06% { KdJd }
Hand 2: 24.9987 % 24.93% 00.06% { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

Here are the numbers on the turn:

Board: 2d Js 8d Qs
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 48.9325 % 48.93% 00.00% { KdJd }
Hand 2: 51.0675 % 51.07% 00.00% { 99+, AJs+, KQs, AJo+, KQo }

On the flop he's a favorite, but he's got to get his chips in here because he has two cards to go to win. On the turn he's slightly behind but not by much. Calling an all in isn't good but it's not too bad since it's close. That's why it's best to get your chips in when on big draws on the flop.

The way you played it wasn't bad, but just remember that you have only one pair. Do you really want to build a big pot with just one pair in this situation?

[swiggidy]

don't think too hard during a free roll. You'll hurt yourself.