Let's play a hand together

[Micro2Macro]

I just made this hand up off the top of my head. I'm borderline drunk right now, so this may be a pretty shit post but oh well, maybe it will at least get people thinking about some (?) things. Maybe someone will post something ridiculously absurd (hey like me) and get flamed for it and then learn something. Maybe some interesting concepts will brew into discussoin. (fwiw I don't know what exactly I'm trying to touch on here but w/e) Micro grinders, give your thoughts and reasoning behind your turn action.

Villain is a smart, tricky, thinking regular capable of making moves (bluff @ weakness, make good laydowns etc). He's an excellent hand reader, he's not afraid to get it in light if he needs to. He is able to accurately put villains on ranges and act accordingly. Assume no specific reads. This is all the information you have, screw your HUD.


You are dealt: :Ts: :Tc: in the CO, 9 handed, 100BB stacks. There is a limper in MP1 and you open for 5BB's.


Villain is in the Big Blind and he calls your raise, the limper folds:


We see a flop heads up with the Big Blind: (12BB) Villain checks and we pot it up for 12BB and get called.


Now the turn: (36BB) :Jd: Villain checks to us again, Hero? (83BB behind)



gogogo! explanations people!

Also, does your decision change if you're holding :Qs: :Qc: instead? If so why? Explain which concepts/thoughts you consider your action to be based on etc.


Edit: Now what if the turn is the :Jc: rather than the diamond. Does this alter your turn decision?

[caddie444]

A few things first...

Villain is a smart, tricky, thinking regular capable of making moves (bluff @ weakness, make good laydowns etc). He's an excellent hand reader, he's not afraid to get it in light if he needs to. He is able to accurately put villains on ranges and act accordingly.

Assume no specific reads

Also I'm assuming villain checked flop??

Also you didn't tell us what villain did on the turn since he is OOP

A lot depends on what he does...

I'm borderline drunk right now

get sloshed IMO

[Micro2Macro]

Sorry, not used to typing out HH's.

I made it clear that both streets were checked to us now.

By no specifc reads I mean like, you don't have a note saying 'double barrled XX on XXXX etc, you just know he's a tough reg. Maybe you can just assume he's a pro here on FTR who you haven't played with but know that he's a tough thinking player, so you have no specfic history with him.

Alcohol seems to fuel my work ethic into doing stuff like this, though it still leaves me making tons of mistakes :/ I hope its edited enough for clarity.

Aslo, I haven't really mentioned anything about how he sees us. Perhaps in your repsonse you could include hypothetical cases, where 'if he views you as 'this'' then you do 'this' as opposed to if he views you differently etc..hope that makes sense.

[caddie444]

Well my standard line here vs this type of opponent is B/F.

I don't think he will be bluffing this turn a lot, as the only hands he may call your bet on the flop for value that he wouldn't repop it with preflop (ie 88-1010) won't be turning their hands into bluffs on this turn.

Most villians won't slowplay their sets on this board, and I don't think he would either.

As for JJ its possible but I wouldn't worry too much about it its such a small part of his range and I figure he would either lead out with it on the turn or c/c the turn and fire the river.

B/F'ing here isn't really exploitable either because if he is *an excellent hand reader* against a player like me, I'm not 2 barrelling this board with nothing, and my range is composed of primarily overpairs, sets, high flushes, AK with the Ad, and 88+ (being the bottom of my range excluding JJ obv)

If he knows I am not 2 barreling light then he can't C/R bluff us profitably here.

Also, there are no real hands he could be semi bluff C/R'ing us with on the turn that include the A of diamonds, unless he is a floaty player.

Since there was no mention of him having a tendency to float, there will not be many semi bluffing hands he will have in general
on this turn. (He may do it with 89 or 45 however)

B/F all the way in this spot

[clvacva]

I put his range on 22-TT 98+, AT-AQ
So on the flop he has straightdraws overpairs underpairs sets and over cards. Since the board is pretty wet I presume he would have c/r with a set. Villain could easily c/c with a flush draw or open ended straight draw or just two overs. So on the turn some of his range got there flushes and Jx. We can still get value from 88/99/66 some random diamond but getting c/r here put us in a difficult spot and since villain is Tricky he is capable of c/r here with some diamonds or a Jack. I could go with either bet fold or check to induce the bluff on the river since he will ''smell weakness'' and pounce.
To be honest I would be more comfortable with checking and calling a river bet(depending on the river and betsize)

[Carroters]

Since this flop misses a lot of our range here, I would think that he'd be more inclined to c/r or fold this flop with air and c/r pretty much most draws since he can expect to have a good amount of FE sicne all we can really continue with is sets, draws and overpairs. Also he may think he can make us fold 88 99 and possibly even the hand we have in this instance. Either way I expect to be c/r by a range of weak draws, strong draws, sets and possibly air here on this flop.

The fact he's c/c flop and checked turn skews his range imo towards weakish/medium made hands, so I don't think wel have much success inducing a bluff on the river as he'll be looking to show down a lot. I also don't think he'll be calling this turn too lightly though and should be folding it a good amount of the time. I'd check back and thin value bet the river if he checks to us again. I don't think a turn bet achieves very much and opens up the possibilty of this guy raising/pwning us with. If he's good he may realise his 88 or w/e is behind our range after we bet turn and make a good bluff raise.

So im summary check turn and c/f river, because like I say, I think his range is weighted towards sd mediocre type hands that will have no need to turn themselves into bluff in the river. In other words, if he bets the river it's most often for value since his medium shit checks and his air doesn't c/c the flop in the first place.

Ez game.

If it's the Jc on the turn, I still check it back - again not getting much value from this guy.

If we have QQ, it's a bit tirckier I think, but I still check turn because I don't wana bet just for protection. QQ is effectively TT here cos there aren't many jacks in his range at all since J10dd raises flop most of the time etc. Also, if he raises us he's repping something bigger than QQ and TT so it plays the same imo.

[Carroters]

Clavca - what is he getting to this river with that he needs to "smell weakness and pounce" with? I really don't think he c/cs draws or air on this flop often at all.

I think c/f river is far better.

[surviva316]

i feel like history matters a bit here, mainly for his preflop reads. does he think i'm opening really wide here because he's seen me open wide behind donk limpers, or has he noticed that i tighten that range up a lot when there's a tricky tagg (who i'm assuming is more than capable of 3b'ing weak ranges like a maniac) in the blinds? does he know that i'm capable of 4b bluffing if he's 3b'ing like a maniac (have i 4b/folded in an ATS spot or shown down A2o in a 4b pot or something?)

i guess i'll go with the assumption that we don't know what he knows about us:

ok so in the TT w a Jd turn example, i really feel like the fact that the card is a diamond hurts us a lot more than the fact that it's an overcard to our hand. in fact, the J halves the chances that he has JJ and the only broadway it could really possibly've imrpoved is like AdJx that decided to float me on the flop. i don't think he's floating this flop very often at all, though 'cause he prolly recognizes that i'm going to double barrel a lot of turns with my D range.

also, i don't think that villain has QQ+ very often here, unless MP1 was like a maniac or something whose stack he thought he could get a lot of the time by flatting here. again we don't know if we have any 4b'ing history here, but it's reasonable to think that he knows that he can 3b/get it in with the best of it a lot here and would prefer to not see a potential 3-way pot OOP when he can just pwn us PF.

i DO think that he can have draws here a lot. i think a c/c is probably the best way for him to play his best draws (combo draws, Adxd, OESD+overs, etc) because c/r'ing gives us the pressure point of the hand IP with a lot of options to proceed in the hand (if we 3b shove, for example, he's forced to fold a huge portion of his range, and sure he could call with his combo draws, but there are better ways to proceed, and if we call, for example, then villain really needs his hand to improve somehow on the turn or he's going to be in a tough spot with only one bet left to go in). so yeah, if he c/c's the flop now he puts US in a pickle. if we bet the turn (on a Xx turn card), then he can c/shove us a lot of the times, or just c/f if he doesn't like the card or timing tells or blah blah blah. if we check behind on the turn, well now we've given him two chances to draw out on us. so c/c'ing just gives villain many more bluff options and a much better chance of hitting his card before he has to make a decision for his stacks.

ok, so i know, i just spent that whole time talking about how villain should play his hand, but my point is, i think villain's range is something like 88-JJ (i'll give JJ 2/3 combos because he can 3b this pre too) and draws (98s, AdXd predominantly). so it should be pretty obvious that we should check turn because 88-TT will just c/snap fold and they have 2 outs against us so we don't mind giving them a card, we'd be giving 98s a chance to bluff us, and we're just banging our heads against the wall against the hands that have us beat.

checking this turn doesn't turn our hand face up either because we're checking behind here with a massive amount of our range because i don't really like double barreling the Jd that much as a bluff, and i'll even check AJ behind here some of the time.

this doesn't make the river hard to play for us either since we have him on a slim enough range that we can figure out whether or not we should call a river bet.

QQ should pretty much play the same way, except we should snap call river bet because now we beat the occassional Jx hand.

Jc changes things dramatically because now the hands that sucked out on us are JdXd type hands. checking behind is still easily best though because betting obv turns our hand into a bluff, and it's a really bad time to bluff because we bluff here so often that we're gonna get played back at a lot with so many possible draws out there.

with QQ, however, i think it's a b/c. i think that villain rarely plays his sets this way on such a draw-heavy flop, and i def don't think he plays 76s this way. so i think that when he c/shoves he has JJ or draws or maybe sometimes AJ. of course, this assumes that villain plays his range in a very unbalanced manner, which sounds bad to assume of a tricky villain, but that doesn't change my opinion that most villains are c/r/c'ing all in with their A range like 99% of the time on this type of board because they can expect to be 3b light by aggressive opponents who put them on draws (i'd probably 3b shove QQ+, AdXd and any OESD here, for example). that's why i said that only the best of draws are in villain's range because i think that they're more likely to either c/r or c/f hands like T8s and Ad8c to balance their A range.

do i win?

[surviva316]

Clavca - what is he getting to this river with that he needs to "smell weakness and pounce" with? I really don't think he c/cs draws or air on this flop often at all.

I think c/f river is far better.

i disagree that he doesn't have draws (read my post). also, i know that i said that this isn't a great flop to float against a player like me, but i do think that villain shows up with something like AdKx a mentionable amount of the time (giving us more reason to not barrel a diamond turn 'cause villain is c/r'ing us even more frequently when adding floats to his range). so this means two things for your argument: 1) i think that we can def find a call on a 2c river and 2) his range on the turn should not simply be medium strength hands. for obvious reasons, a tricky tagg opponent should not ever be c/c'ing with only medium strength hands 100% of the time against a thinking opponent.

betting for thin value on the river is interesting though. i'm having a hard time figuring out if that's good or not (it really depends on how often he's c/r'ing for value and with the nuts)

[Carroters]

I'm not saying his range is all definitely medium strength hands. I just don't think he's flatting oop to c/c a flop like this with many draws. A lot of tricky regs float in position all day long so they can take it away on the turn or river after we check. Floating oop in general just isn't a great play in many situations because villain can't control the turn action so well and wont be able to bet it. I just think a good tricky opponent would much rather c/r here since our range doesn't connect very well with this board and it stops us being able to double barrel him. I mean is he really c/c flop with air in the hope that we check the turn so he can bet the river, doesn't seem like the best play without a certain amount of history (which obviously we don't have)

There may be fds in his range here, but I don't think they're too likely because of this: Any flush draw also has 2 over and therefore, plenty equity to felt the flop if he needs to. As for weaker draws like gut shots with bd flush draws etc, I think they're c.r as a bluff for the same reason as his air is. They don't have enough equity to make the awkward c/c line much good oop.
OESDs are definitely still in his range on the river but aren't a very big portion of it.

This is very villanin dependant and it's hard to know for sure who's right about his flop range, but I'm just saying what I think the typical way for an aggro tricky reg to play is.

One more point: Just because he's good and likes to balance his range a lot, doesn't mean he'll chose an inferior play to do so. I think c/r this flop is totally fine with the vast majority of draws and his range for doing this is probably totally balanced like I said earlier, so he has no need to c/c. Also, I think he donks this flop with a balacned range including many draws quite often aswell if he doesn't check raise.

I can't understand why you wouldn't want to capitialize on the fold equity with a draw on this flop before an ace or something falls on the turn or river - that's another problem I have with the c/c line from villain's point of veiw, he may lose FE as the hand progresses. Maybe that's just me, but if I'm villain I'm just check raising this flop all day long before I'm check calling. Think how difficult it's going to be for him to get value if he makes his flush being oop on a scary board that somewhat nails his preflop calling range. Yuck.

[clvacva]

I see what you mean carroters. Like if he c/c the flop and the flush hits or straight will he get the money in not likely. Also since most flushdraws with two overs have over 40%equity and opponent is capable of getting it light he would probably have c/r more than c/c.
I also see what you mean by the c/f on the river, opponent is not likely to turn his weak hand into a bluff and just wants a showdown. And since he is c/c with a weakishhand most of the time instead of a draw he is going to be checking the river to get to showdown unless he improved and will bet for value only.

[Carroters]

I see what you mean carroters. Like if he c/c the flop and the flush hits or straight will he get the money in not likely. Also since most flushdraws with two overs have over 40%equity and opponent is capable of getting it light he would probably have c/r more than c/c.
I also see what you mean by the c/f on the river, opponent is not likely to turn his weak hand into a bluff and just wants a showdown. And since he is c/c with a weakishhand most of the time instead of a draw he is going to be checking the river to get to showdown unless he improved and will bet for value only.

Exactly sir. Be interested to hear more oppinions though - interesting spot.

[surviva316]

funny how we're spending the whole thread talking about how villain should play his hand....

Think how difficult it's going to be for him to get value if he makes his flush being oop on a scary board that somewhat nails his preflop calling range. Yuck.

well how often is hero flatting a c/r on this flop? and with this range, how often are we calling a shove on a diamond turn.

also, i don't really get the whole our FE goes down as the hand progresses. i mean if an A hits it's not like hero's snap calling a turn c/shove w AT or anything (in fact yeti theorem would argue that FE is at its highest on the turn). TAggs like us are just used to being played back at by other TAggs on low coordinated flops, but once we're playing for stacks on the turn with a one pair hand, it's a different story.

and that whole "playing for stacks" thing is the biggest part of it, and it's what i was referrencing when i was talking about the pressure points argument. once a bet in the neighborhood of 30bb is made, then the next bet is for all the marbles. this is one of the top considerations (along with FE) that i take into account when i'm playing a draw because, especially when i'm oop, i wanna be the one who is in control of whether the stacks go in or not and put our opponent to a tough decision when we have a draw

so if villain checks and raises our 12bb bet to 36bb then villain has just given us the right to shove our stack (and we can do it with a wide range in this spot). we can play our A, B, C, and D ranges each as we choose, folding, calling or raising as we see fit. if we decide to shove, then we put villain's back against the wall. now he can either call or fold, calling with his A-range, making a tough decision with each individual hand in his B-range, and snap folding everything else. even if we flat (which i don't think we should very often) the turn is a tough spot for villain. he only has one bet to work with, and if the turn doesn't complete his draw, then he can never bet for value, and betting as a bluff is only going to be profitable on a handful of turns (if any). so essentially if we continue to the c/r, then villain will either have to fold his hand to a shove, make a hero call with a draw or pray for a good turn and play 1 street/1 bet poker (which is a terrible spot to be in with a draw).

now consider if villain c/c's turn with the intention of c/shoving most turns (the Jd obv not being one of those if villain's draw is 9c8c or something like that). well villain still has the same fold equity when up against our D range, but now he gets another street of value out of it. now he's more likely to get our draws to fold (although we prolly shouldn't be betting too many turns with our C range) whereas our draws were making villain fold to a bluff on the flop. in short, when playing against TAggs, we improve your fold equity by only giving them two choices, call or fold. they have no chance of continuing for implied odds or for bluffing back to gain fold equity or anything like that. they can only call if they have our range beat.

this play also makes hero warier of auto-double barreling good turn cards on this type of board in the future.

for what it's worth though, i'm ONLY talking about the upper eschelon of his draws, like AdXd, 98s and 6d5d. i totally think that a c/r with the majority of his draws (but ones that can still see a lot of turns that are good to double barrel) is the best line. so our disagreement's kind of a small one

as for the whole thing about floating this flop, i agree that it's not a good one to float. if villain is better than i am, though, then he may be able to find a way to make a float profitable, thus minimizing his c/f range, and if villain isn't quite as good as you or me, then he may not recognize that this isn't a great spot to float and attempt it anyway. i was just saying that i think that villain shows up to the river with something like AdQx every once in a while.

here's how i would expect "tricky TAgg reg" to play this hand on the flop against an opponent like me:

A Range - {77, 66, 22 (if this is even in his range), 76s, QQ+} the nuts. c/r/c shove because a good TAgg is gonna 3bet this flop pretty light, so it's easily profitable to get it in with QQ or better.

B Range - {88-JJ, AdXd, 98s, 6d5d, etc.) basically one of two categories: hands with SD value that can't profitably play for stacks on the flop, and the best of the best of draws that are being played passively for deception. the SD hands are going to c/c most turns and the draws are going to c/shove most turns.

C Range - {draws like JdTd, Ad8c, Tc8c, maybe 6c5c} great candidates with which to play back at opponent's wide cbetting range. hands villain can c/r with, and in the rare cases that the raise is flatted, there are a bunch of turn cards that can profitably be barreled.

D Range - {air} most of these will be c/f'ed. i do think that villain will float a few things in his air range like maybe 6d6x, but it's tough for me to see it being a profitable play.

now it's time for spenda to come in rip me

[Micro2Macro]

Just got in from my mini vacation and interested to see the discussion going. I'll try and catch up here.

Well my standard line here vs this type of opponent is B/F.

I don't think he will be bluffing this turn a lot, as the only hands he may call your bet on the flop for value that he wouldn't repop it with preflop (ie 88-1010) won't be turning their hands into bluffs on this turn.

Most villians won't slowplay their sets on this board, and I don't think he would either.

As for JJ its possible but I wouldn't worry too much about it its such a small part of his range and I figure he would either lead out with it on the turn or c/c the turn and fire the river.

B/F'ing here isn't really exploitable either because if he is *an excellent hand reader* against a player like me, I'm not 2 barrelling this board with nothing, and my range is composed of primarily overpairs, sets, high flushes, AK with the Ad, and 88+ (being the bottom of my range excluding JJ obv)

If he knows I am not 2 barreling light then he can't C/R bluff us profitably here.

Also, there are no real hands he could be semi bluff C/R'ing us with on the turn that include the A of diamonds, unless he is a floaty player.

Since there was no mention of him having a tendency to float, there will not be many semi bluffing hands he will have in general
on this turn. (He may do it with 89 or 45 however)

B/F all the way in this spot

I like your explanation here, this is basically what I was thinking. I agree that B/F here isn't really exploitable. In fact if he B/F here with TT/QQ/Jx then our range will be pretty balanced since we're going to be betting our sets/2pair/draws/bluffs as well.

What I do think would be exploitable is checking the turn in either situation - and I can't count how many times I've seen opponents do this here so there's definately people here in the BC taking the 'pot control line' when all it does is eat into our value and allow us to get pwnd on the river. It also makes you to have a really unbalanced turn range where you're either betting your nut hands or a bluff basically.

Against a very weak tight player who may fold to a double barrel with a hand like 88 but will be willing to call off on a 'safe' river since they won't fear any further bets it's probably okay to check back the turn, assuming there aren't draws/weaker hands he'll c/c the turn with.

I think that while balance isn't always so important to consider when we take lines as we're trying to exploit other players (especially weak players i.e. fish), when it comes to playing against a smart opponent we need to make sure we're balancing our play to some degree.

I think my line of thought here is alright, feel free to point something out I misapplied.

Edit: I didn't really discuss villains range yet though I think I'll add in my 2c after reading the rest of the discussion.

[Carroters]

M2M - I don't understand why you're wanting to b/f this turn. I really don't think we are getting any value whatsoever from 88 or 99 etc because villain wont be expecting us to barrel this turn light. You've also described him as being capable of making laydowns, so imo this guy isn't going to be c/c 2 streets here, he'll likely be folding this range now to a second barrel or turning his hand into a bluff an c/r this turn (rarely.)

In order to argue that b/f turn is good, we really do need to address villains range and there has to be at least some value in it. I don't think there's much if any.

Also, checking back the turn doesn't really allow us to be pwned on the river if you agree with my range for villain (which you prolly don't lul) Reason being he doesn't actually bluff the river very often because he doesn't have very many weak hands in his range in the first place apart from those with sd value that love to check here.

A lot of the time checking back here can be exploitable if villains range is balacned in such a way that we cannot call a river bet as it has value and bluffs in near equal proportions. Here though, there's 2 very fundemental reasons why I think it's prefectly fine.

1. We have none to little value here. I really disagree from the description that this guy will be calling 88 99 here. However, the guy was created in your mind so what the hell do I know!

2. Villains range on the river should not contain much air or busted draws. Therefore we can fold to a bet without feeling we've been exploited by checking the turn back. Basically, I'm yet to be convinced that he c/cs a weak range of unmade hands or decent draws.

Villains range here is far more important than us balacning ours. No value = no bet on the turn here imo - regardless of how unbalacned it is.

[littleogre]

check back the turn . If he checks river make a value bet but if he c-raises you fold. If he bets the river call as long as it's a reasonable bet.

[okiman]

Count me among the many taking the wrong line here. M2M, you're suggesting we should b/f our entire range here and saying it's not exploitable? Isn't our range with nut hands and draws/bluffs more balanced considering the play we're opening up to is a c/r on the turn? Using Renton's ABCD, you're saying we'll be betting the turn with our nut hands and our draws/some air, so we should include our weaker made hands with some showdown value too? Wouldn't a thinking opponent quickly realize we're betting all of our hands on the turn and adjust by choosing to c/r here far wider?

Also, if we're doing this for value, there are only a few hands we can get value from on the turn (and only thin value as most are drawing hands). Can we really get value from 88, 99 against a thinking opponent? We certainly can't fold out better hands on the turn.

[Micro2Macro]

What 1 pair hands are we betting on this turn? (If any) It seems as though AA=QQ=KK=AJ here.

Why are we afraid of being c/r on the turn? If he thinks we're going to check back the turn with most 1 pair hands why would he play something like a set slow by going c/c c? If he thinks we're going to give a free card on the turn would that not make sense for him to c/c FD's and c/r the river if he hits (or as a bluff if he misses depending on which cards fall)?

Value on the turn is definately thin, if there is any at all. If I were to bet I would go for roughly 1/2 pot I think. But if we check the turn our checking range is air/weak 1 pair hands and we never have much strength. Although, we could check back the turn with a FD. I'm just wondering if it really matters that we're basically NEVER betting 1 pair hands on the turn here against someone who knows this.

Maybe the Jack wasn't the best card to add for the turn, because if it was an Ace we may actually get looked up lighter since we'd be 'expected to barrel it' like most TAGfish do.

[BankItDrew]

Quickly:

with TT vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with QQ vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with TT or QQ vs Jx turn I am betting 99% of the time on turn and soul reading river action

[Micro2Macro]

check back the turn . If he checks river make a value bet but if he c-raises you fold. If he bets the river call as long as it's a reasonable bet.

See you're plan is to fold to a river c/r, and a river c/r is what is going to exploit us checking back our 1 pair. We get no value from draws by betting the river.

Quickly:

with TT vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with QQ vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with TT or QQ vs Jx turn I am betting 99% of the time on turn and soul reading river action

This. I was typing this out in my last message but left it out that I would be less inclined to bet the Jd turn whereas I'd be betting the turn that doesn't complete the flush. After thinking about it some more I think I'd always check back the Jd turn now.

The other day I thought about betting in both spots but since we're never getting value on the Jd turn I changed my mind.

Also, if we're doing this for value, there are only a few hands we can get value from on the turn (and only thin value as most are drawing hands). Can we really get value from 88, 99 against a thinking opponent? We certainly can't fold out better hands on the turn.

On the Jc turn, perhaps yes. I don't think we ever will on the Jd turn though.

You are definately correct about not being able to fold out better hands.

M2M - I don't understand why you're wanting to b/f this turn. I really don't think we are getting any value whatsoever from 88 or 99 etc because villain wont be expecting us to barrel this turn light.

See my reply to okiman. Also about the turn barrel card, I think we may be able to get him to call lighter if it came an Ace as we'd be 'expected to barrel it'. (I mentioned this in one my other recent replies). Not sure how indifferent he would be to continuing if it was an Ace as opposed to a Jack.

[Micro2Macro]

Villains range here is far more important than us balacning ours. No value = no bet on the turn here imo - regardless of how unbalacned it is.

I'm not sure about this. I'm not sure if we should worry about balance here vs this particular villain or not. I'm thinking we should be a little bit, but maybe only if we're going to be playing him all the time. I think maybe at first we can ignore it until we develop some history? (Thus merging our range in this spot later after we've played him for awhile)

Any thoughts on this ^?

[surviva316]

i don't see how we can merge our range in the future unless we have a redonk memory or make a really weird, super specific, not that useful note.

i think balancing our range by checking back nut flushes, mid-top sets and all of our draws a certain percentage of the time is good enough. it's not like weak pairs are a humongous part of our range, and we do have position, so it's not all that easy to exploit us if we show weakness.

i can def see betting in the Jc hand a lot more than the Jd hand, but i feel like since i'm bluffing this turn with such a high frequency, i don't wanna make too many thin value bets because villain's going to be trying to exploit us with c/r's with a big part of his range.

[Micro2Macro]

what no...we don't wanna check back our nut range if we can help it (?). I don't think it matters whether our checking range is balanced or not (?). Our betting range is probably more important in regards to balance (?).

if you're always betting air/nuts villain will eventually catch on and start calling down lighter, therefore we will value bet thinner which is essentially merging our range (I think?)