Quote Originally Posted by littleogre
check back the turn . If he checks river make a value bet but if he c-raises you fold. If he bets the river call as long as it's a reasonable bet.
See you're plan is to fold to a river c/r, and a river c/r is what is going to exploit us checking back our 1 pair. We get no value from draws by betting the river.

Quote Originally Posted by BankItDrew
Quickly:

with TT vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with QQ vs Jd turn I'm checking behind and soul reading river action
with TT or QQ vs Jx turn I am betting 99% of the time on turn and soul reading river action
This. I was typing this out in my last message but left it out that I would be less inclined to bet the Jd turn whereas I'd be betting the turn that doesn't complete the flush. After thinking about it some more I think I'd always check back the Jd turn now.

The other day I thought about betting in both spots but since we're never getting value on the Jd turn I changed my mind.

Quote Originally Posted by okiman
Also, if we're doing this for value, there are only a few hands we can get value from on the turn (and only thin value as most are drawing hands). Can we really get value from 88, 99 against a thinking opponent? We certainly can't fold out better hands on the turn.
On the Jc turn, perhaps yes. I don't think we ever will on the Jd turn though.

You are definately correct about not being able to fold out better hands.

Quote Originally Posted by Carroters
M2M - I don't understand why you're wanting to b/f this turn. I really don't think we are getting any value whatsoever from 88 or 99 etc because villain wont be expecting us to barrel this turn light.
See my reply to okiman. Also about the turn barrel card, I think we may be able to get him to call lighter if it came an Ace as we'd be 'expected to barrel it'. (I mentioned this in one my other recent replies). Not sure how indifferent he would be to continuing if it was an Ace as opposed to a Jack.