What to do when someone says "You suck at poker"

[Robb]

So you get spanked in the forums. Someone says you suck at poker, and it pisses you off. What do you do? Consider this...what if it's true?

I got called out directly (link to BJ's thread) and indirectly (link to Spoon's thread), and here was my first thought:

I'm not one of the THEM...all THOSE OTHER dudes that really suck at poker, and hang out here month after month not improving. I'm really smart and I'm really good at poker, and I've been learning, and my results at 25nl are just negative variance.

It was whiny-ass bullshit.

My second thought was more like this: Let's face it. I'm the world's biggest poker dumbass, no lie. I do STOOOPID shit all the damn time, shit I know is STOOOPID when I click the damn button. Negative variance - f**k...somebody good had the cards I did they'd probably think they were on a damn heater.

Well...I'm not really THAT honest with myself, but I did look pretty realistically at my poker skills and results. And you know what?

I suck at poker. But now I'm thinking a lot more clearly about what can be fixed, and how. Now I'm not defensive. I'm improving. I'm studying .

This will be slow - I'm not playing a lot right now, so progress will be months not weeks. I'll probably post some stuff about what I'm learning as I go, either in my operation thread or here in the BC. BJ gave me some "homework" in his thread which I've already started in on, so I'll post whatever I learn to get quality feedback on it from y'all.

But ask yourself this the next time someone suggests that you might just suck at poker. What if they're right?

[spoonitnow]

There is nothing better than to know that you don't know.

[Monty3038]

Robb, this is like AA... I suck at poker too... but I'm working on it. I don't spend enough time studying, I spend too much time calling shit I shouldn't, wanting the villian to 'show me' he has me beat and not believing it.

And I really suck at live poker.

I plan to improve though, once I get more time to play (about 3 weeks away) I expect to go on a major heater and play proficiently and prolifically (if that is even a word).

Hang in there, we can beat this addiction together... I mean, we can prosper together.

[d0zer]

You give up your ego and say "yeah, I know"

[badgers]

Robb serious advice you're probably constantly overthinking and levelling yourself all the time. Nail down a really good ABC game and don't over-adjust because of half-arsed reads.

[aka_red]

this is gonna sound bad but if you cant beat the micros you should seriously reconsider what your goals are in poker. you seem to have finally realized you suck bad enough that you admit to the world u cant beat the micros. get a grip dude either put in the time and effort and get the results you want or quit bitching about your poor results.

[Fnord]

I play bad, take my money.

[spoonitnow]

Robb, this is like AA... I suck at poker too... but I'm working on it. I don't spend enough time studying, I spend too much time calling shit I shouldn't, wanting the villian to 'show me' he has me beat and not believing it.

And I really suck at live poker.

I plan to improve though, once I get more time to play (about 3 weeks away) I expect to go on a major heater and play proficiently and prolifically (if that is even a word).

Hang in there, we can beat this addiction together... I mean, we can prosper together.

I absolutely 100% mean no offense when I say the the following:

You plan to go on a heater? Once you get more time to play? After you just said you don't spend enough time studying? But you plan to improve? Am I the only person who sees a lot wrong with this?

[Miffed22001]

It was actually spoon telling me i sucked that forced me into putting in more effort to get to 2/4 (which ive now almost done)

The biggest turning point was actually 'fuck you i dont suck' and proving that wrong, and anyway, if you arent playing 25/50 you do suck, and when you realise that you'll realise that you want to improve

[Monty3038]

Robb, this is like AA... I suck at poker too... but I'm working on it. I don't spend enough time studying, I spend too much time calling shit I shouldn't, wanting the villian to 'show me' he has me beat and not believing it.

And I really suck at live poker.

I plan to improve though, once I get more time to play (about 3 weeks away) I expect to go on a major heater and play proficiently and prolifically (if that is even a word).

Hang in there, we can beat this addiction together... I mean, we can prosper together.

I absolutely 100% mean no offense when I say the the following:

You plan to go on a heater? Once you get more time to play? After you just said you don't spend enough time studying? But you plan to improve? Am I the only person who sees a lot wrong with this?

Sorry, forgot to put the [sarcasm] tag on it.

Of course I am going to only go on a heater once I improve... that was kind of the point. I forget sometimes that sarcasm doesn't post well in messages.


EDIT: Ok, so that response sucked too.

Let me explain a little about MY psychology... if I don't work to improve I won't. My response to Robb was more about comiserating that I know I need to improve as well, and I need to study to do so. I don't feel I have a grasp yet on what to study, but time is a major factor in my limiting my studying so far. Once time opens up for me (the weather changes, etc.) I will have more time to dedicate to working on deeper analysis... yes I know, what is the point of playing if you are not winning, etc... but I feel I am improving marginally by playing at my current ratio... but more study and time analyzing would definately improve me.

In the long run, I see this post by Robb and my response less as a 'whine' session as someone pointed out, and more as a 'I'm going to get off my ass and improve' post.

[daven]

Robb serious advice you're probably constantly overthinking and levelling yourself all the time. Nail down a really good ABC game and don't over-adjust because of half-arsed reads.

I'm building a small list of things I think that you should look at. I'll flick it your way when I'm done.
The first is filtering on hands where you call a river bet > 40bb without the nuts.... I hero-call less now.

[spoonitnow]

It was actually spoon telling me i sucked that forced me into putting in more effort to get to 2/4 (which ive now almost done)

The biggest turning point was actually 'fuck you i dont suck' and proving that wrong, and anyway, if you arent playing 25/50 you do suck, and when you realise that you'll realise that you want to improve

I knew you would, that's why I ignored people telling me that I should leave you alone in IRC.

[Robb]

It was actually spoon telling me i sucked that forced me into putting in more effort to get to 2/4 (which ive now almost done)

The biggest turning point was actually 'fuck you i dont suck' and proving that wrong

It's nice to hear that other folks have - once in a while - plateaued.

Robb serious advice you're probably constantly overthinking and levelling yourself all the time. Nail down a really good ABC game and don't over-adjust because of half-arsed reads.

The best thing about admitting I suck and getting to work was that I'm finding my game's not a complete train wreck. I've got a decent start.

Positives
1. Lots of folks online suck worse than me, so I'm up $1,200 lifetime at 10nl.
2. My lifetime net at 25nl is -$524 over 56k hands, or -1.9 ptBB/100. Which, after rakeback, is only 4 - 6 BI's down over nearly 60k hands.

So badgers is exactly right - I've gotta nail down the ABC's that win consistently, find the big leaks, build the roll and then pwn 25nl.

I'm building a small list of things I think that you should look at. I'll flick it your way when I'm done. The first is filtering on hands where you call a river bet > 40bb without the nuts.... I hero-call less now.

Yeah, most of my big losers in pots > 150bb were overshoves with a premium pocket pair on the flop - after check raises from passive players.Or Hero calls of flop or turn raises with TPTK. The kind of overshove/call following action that reads (in HUGE Las Vegas-like neon) "my cards are better than yours, dipshit."

this is gonna sound bad but if you cant beat the micros you should seriously reconsider what your goals are in poker. you seem to have finally realized you suck bad enough that you admit to the world u cant beat the micros. get a grip dude either put in the time and effort and get the results you want or quit bitching about your poor results.

Bitch, please!!

Seriously, red, you have it exactly right. I would emphasize one thing. I'm a hobbyist. So if I spend 3 hours of week on poker, 2 of them studying, and playing only 4k hands a month, it's going to be a few months before I'm pwn'ing 25nl. Just because Spoon will play 500k hands before I get to 25nl doesn't mean I'm not working at it and improving. Just be sure to let folks have their own personal time line that makes sense.