Play Poker Like the Pro's - Phil Hellmuth

[LuckySlevin]

I'm reccomending this book to any relatively new player to the game, I've been playing about three weeks now and under forum advice I've purchased Harrington on Holdem I II and III & also No Limit Hold em theory and Practice - David Sklansky.

However I saw the Hellmuth book too and couldn't resist it.

It's a fairly short book with nice large print, but it does have some great basic suggestions in it for the new player. It starts with the premise that new players should play tight and introduces suited connectors etc. as an 'intermediate' strategy.

It gives a good broad introduction to the game and I've already learnt quite a bit of 'general' info as well as specific tactical ideas from it, (generally for instance that WSOP is the biggest event on the poker calendar... had guessed as much but didn't know for certain!)

I can't reccomend it enough for the aspiring player that wants a gentle introduction before they get to the more detailed books.

[smitts187]

ok thanks slevin, im gonna check it out, might grab it from the library for now, kinda low on funds. im doing exceptionally well on pokerstars right now tho, i got a dollar sent to me, and ive since turned it into 15.19, quite impressive if you ask me lol well im proud of myself atleast, ive learnt so much since being on this site its incredible.. quoting your signature ive literally gone from zero to hero lol, i hope to keep learning and increasing mybankroll, good luck to you as well, also i was wondering if you ended up depositing anything or if you are still playing free rolls (i saw a post stating u were depositig 600, but your signature reveals otherwise)


- smitts187 -

[ATOTHEC101]

good luck to both of you on achieving your goals and getting better at poker.

[smitts187]

thx atothec, ive since won another 2$ lol!! woot buildin it up slowly

Go read the books by Doyle, Harrington and Sklansky, among others and you will hopefully then realize what a piece of trash Play Poker Like the Pros truly is. If you want to read something with Phil Hellmuth and ever play live poker, go read Read 'Em and Reap by Joe Navarro.

Whoohoo, my 100th post. I'm slowly crawling my way out of the FTR newbie circle.

[smitts187]

i was just at the library and they had a few poker books, i got one called Online Ace by Scott Fischman which is strictly online play...and i got a maran illustrated poker, they were the best books they had and im starting my readig now, they had non of the books anyone has mentioned as of yet, so i think im gonna have to go to an actual bookstore to look for these

[LuckySlevin]

I decided today that my strategy in the free rolls wasn't working I wasn't aggresive enough and I only discovered that by reading phils book. I'm on a break at the moment best i've done so far, it's a satelite where the last 9 go to a final satalite for a WSOPE seat, and a couple of lower level seats. I'm in second place at the moment I've been really trying hard to read people. And it seems to be paying off, my last hand just put me into second position. I would never have played this usually but I had a feeling the guy didn't have much who was the only one really I was up against.

I just like ppltp by hellmuth because its quite informal but does hammer home the basics, like starting hands, and different styles (i love his animal style anology).

Anyway this is the hand I just played, what do you think? I kind of went out on a limb. But I've realised you have to take risks in these free rolls or you've got nowhere near enough chips even if you do reach the end.

***** Betfair Poker Hand History for Game 386217465 *****
NL Texas Hold'em $0 Buy-in + $0 Entry Fee, Level:6 Blinds(100/200-(no ante)) - Thursday, July 17, 00:29:20 GMT 2008
WSOPE Daily Freeroll Qualifier #156362
Table 12 9-max (Real Money)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of active players : 7
Seat 1: kirkpenfold ( 780 )
Seat 2: kok06 ( 1,025 )
Seat 3: MyKAT ( 1,000 )
Seat 4: LuckySlev ( 51,826 )
Seat 5: Tellius ( 3,155 )
Seat 6: TheOne57 ( 23,761 )
Seat 7: SweetLisa ( 0 )
Seat 8: perhaps ( 22,375 )
Seat 9: scuzzle01 ( 14,205 )
Tourney Level:6 Blinds(100/200-(no ante))
kirkpenfold posts small blind [100]
kok06 posts big blind [200]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to LuckySlev [ Kd, 9d ]
MyKAT folds
LuckySlev calls [200]
Tellius calls [200]
TheOne57 calls [200]
perhaps raises to [1,300]
kirkpenfold folds
kok06 folds
LuckySlev calls [1,100]
Tellius calls [1,100]
TheOne57 folds
** Dealing Flop ** [ Jc, Qd, 2c ]
LuckySlev bets [10,400]
Tellius calls [1,855]
Tellius goes all-in
perhaps goes all-in
perhaps raises to [21,075]
LuckySlev calls [10,675]
** Showdown **
LuckySlev shows [ Kd, 9d ]
Tellius shows [ Jh, Kc ]
perhaps shows [ Ac, 9c ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Kh ]
** Dealing River ** [ 5h ]
** Hand Conclusion **
LuckySlev wins 38,440 from side pot #1 with a pair of Kings
Tellius wins 9,965 from main pot with two pair, Kings and Jacks
************ Game 386217465 ends ************

[Deanglow]

I'm pretty sure the book did not teach you to call with marginal hands out of position and go allin with a gutshot postflop. You need to tighten up far beyond what your standards are.

[Deanglow]

Sorry to sound so harsh, but I think it would do you a lot of good to g0 the strategy section and read all there is to know about tournaments. Also, go to the MTT forum. We have a lot of good posters there who will teach you tons.

[LuckySlevin]

I was just fed up of not having any chips at the end of the tournament so decided I have to take risks.

Also I was fairly sure that perhaps didn't have much... which proved right! i'm getting better at reading my opponents I think, either that or it's pure luck, I hope it's the former!

[JKDS]

i see your reasoning preflop but i still dont like it. You have a huge stack so you can afford to play weaker hands, but i would either raise or fold em. I definitely fold to the raise though unless i planned on folding weak flopped hands and stacking with 2 pair.

Flop play...wtf are you doing? This is a super drawy flop, and it hit a large portion of both their ranges. Never bluff here ever. Also, you bluffed 3x the pot????? why?? Do you do this when you hit as well? If so, it makes more sense...but you are risking way more of your stack than you need too. No need to try and win every hand when you have this much of a commanding lead, take it slow and steady and pick your spots. You are 100 big blinds ahead of the next guy at the table so honestly, you can sit back and play only AA and KK if you wanted too and he still wouldnt catch you. Slow down, make some pizza, but dont go on some bluffing spree for half 1/3 of your insane stack size.

[JKDS]

I was just fed up of not having any chips at the end of the tournament so decided I have to take risks.

Also I was fairly sure that perhaps didn't have much... which proved right! i'm getting better at reading my opponents I think, either that or it's pure luck, I hope it's the former!

careful. although he didnt have much, you called his all in for half your stack as a 20% underdog. You only win this pot once every five times. Just because someone is bluffing, or has a weak holding doesnt mean that your weak holding beats it, or should call it for that matter.

[poker_pup]

i was just at the library and they had a few poker books, i got one called Online Ace by Scott Fischman which is strictly online play...

I've read Scott Fischman's book. It's been a long time, but I think it actually hurt my game. Maybe I just wasn't smart enough at the time to understand it.

[Deanglow]

Pretty much all the decent posters in the full ring and shorthanded NL forums will provide better advice than the Scott Fischman and PH books

[Thunder]

You played like an absolute idiot and got lucky. Enough lottery play abounds in freerolls as it is and so what you did was just join the goobers. Enjoy it for what it was - a lucky break - but don't kid yourself that it's good play.

As for the Hellmuth book, it's complete crap. A cursory look at the reviews on Amazon, in the books section of this forum, or the actual review of the book on this forum would tell you as such.

There are many books but just a handful that are recommended. And they too are easy to find if you just open your eyes and look.

[LuckySlevin]

Some of us actually prefer to make our independant mind up regarding the value of a book instead of reading the second handed reviews of others. You have made a relative value judgement on a book you haven't even read with absolute certainty, only an 'idiot' as you say, would do that.

Thunder this is a beginners forum if you can't speak without such a condescending tone you shouldn't be in it.

[a500lbgorilla]

You have made a relative value judgement on a book you haven't even read with absolute certainty, only an idiot would do that.

But it's got a cover I can so easily judge!!!

[LuckySlevin]

But it's got a cover I can so easily judge!!!

shitsux /thread

[LuckySlevin]

thread hijacking aside, it's actually quite a good book.

thread hijacking aside, it's actually quite a good book.

it's not

[Thunder]

Some of us actually prefer to make our independant mind up regarding the value of a book instead of reading the second handed reviews of others. You have made a relative value judgement on a book you haven't even read with absolute certainty, only an 'idiot' as you say, would do that.

Thunder this is a beginners forum if you can't speak without such a condescending tone you shouldn't be in it.

What you see as condescending is plain truth pointing out the inanity of your posts. If you were less defensive you'd see that.

First, you talk about independent opinion but that is the exact point. Independent opinion has racked up an overall view that the book is very poor. Not one person's view but many.

Second, as you say you have been playing for a few weeks so is any newbies opinion going to be that good/important? That is why I pointed out that there are many books but only a handful that are recommended - by others. Many others. And that too should carry far more weight than the opinion of one person. Let alone one 3 week newb. Again, not an insult but fact.

Third, you say I haven't read it but how do you know? That in itself is a ludicrous and unfounded statement that you are passing off as fact. And for the record, I have read the book and guess what - it was turd. Just liek Negreanu's book, which I also read.

You're new and you're eager - fine. But you don't need to post on everything and be in such a rush to pas on knowledge when you haven't yet accumulated any. That isn't an insult - it's the truth. Even if you read all the books in a week, you'd still need several thousand games of experience to even see if you are beating the game or not.

And finally, the fact that no one in the know rates the book and that people in this very thread are disagreeing with you and stating that it's not a good book speaks volumes. Not only about the book itself but about the validity of a newb's opinion. The fact that you are alone in rating it really says a lot and wholly undermines your belief that you are experienced enough to pass onto others. The fact that you think it's a good book belies your belief. And if I were you, and I saw everyone in this thread disagree with you, plus the reviews on this and every other site, I'd take a step back and realise that maybe they have a point and that as I am unable to see that point, I should listen and read more than talk and espouse.

Just slow down and learn. You'll be a noob for far longer than 3 weeks. I still class myself as a newbie despite playing real cash for 12 months. No one stops learning the game and don't be in such a rush to become anything other than a sponge soaking up all the poker info you can.

[LuckySlevin]

iopq: Yes it is.

thunder: I think It best if we just agree to differ.

[Thunder]

thread hijacking aside, it's actually quite a good book.

it's not

Exactly.

Thunder: I think It best if we just agree to differ.

You can take a horse to water..........

[LuckySlevin]

You can take a horse to water..........

Indeed.

[Deanglow]

People who actually know the game better than you are giving you sound advice. You should listen because you don't know what you are talking about. Everyone here who has made it past the freeroll stage recognizes that the book sucks.

[LuckySlevin]

My opinion is that it doesn't it's as simple as that. I wasn't asking for advice on if the book was good I was giving advice to like minded people to purchase the book. You have an opinion so do I that is fine.

Now if you were speaking poker to me of course I would listen to your comments. When someone is commenting on a book I have read and telling me it's rubbish when I completely disagree of course we will differ in our views.

I have taken issue with Thunder who is completely up her/his self. Please do not think my valuation of this persons comments as worthless are a carte blanche brush by myself to ignore other peoples advice.

I am generally amiable to any advice regarding my poker, (obvious exception aside) which is the reason I joined this forum in the first place.

And I thank you for any constructive comments you have put my way in the past.

[Robb]

thread hijacking aside, it's actually quite a good book.

I've read all the books mentioned in this thread (except Online Ace), plus some. PH's book is medicore, at best, relative to books by Sklansky, Harrington and others.

Unlike a lot of FTR folks, I actually LIKE Phil Helmuth, so I was disappointed to learn his book was woefully simplistic and, in many cases, flat out bad advice for new players.

BTW, Phil Helmuth suggests the noobie take a VERY tight approach to poker, an approach not really exhibited in the HH's above.

I too, unlike many others, like Phil Hellmuth. He's a nitty, arrogant SOB but he's earned that right... and well, I respect that. His book was one of the FIRST poker books I read. Since I had nothing at all to compare it to, I as well thought it was a great book. Now? Well, not so much. It's a fun read, just don't let it be your poker bible.

[speedcake]

I say let 'em buy it, read it, love it. And then play like Phil against me in all my cash games.



shhhhhhh

[jyms]

There are only a few books that should be read by beginners and I will say this, PH's book is not one of them. I have a ton of books both on my desk and on my computer in PDF format and I think I can make a recomendation or two.

Read HOH1 and HOH2 before anything, this book will giv e any new plkayer the basics or a sound game, including pot odds, position and MTT strat. It has plenty of value for a cash game beginner as well. After that you can read the other three in any order, but I recomemend this order.

TOP
NLHT&P
TOP again
PNL
TOP again and then PNL one more time.

Keep NLHT&P nearby and peruse the concepts pages as often as possible in between all this reading.

Oh yea and read FTR, certainly the stickys.


Lastly, stop playing freerolls, they will drain you of life and drive you to an asylum. What is your time worth??? Playing poker for 4 hours to win what? $3? $5? Is your life so devoid of enjoyment that you will play poker for less than $0.08/hr?

Seriously, poker sucks, and if it wasn't for the money, most of us would not play. I for one would rather play Guitar heroes or WoW. Play for nothing, not a chance.

[smitts187]

I for one would rather play Guitar heroes or WoW. Play for nothing, not a chance.

lol wow is bomb, but since ive been taking poker more serious i havent even opened the game, maybe once or twice, but if i could make money from it...id be on it 24/7 lol (i used to play poker and wow at the same time)

[bjsaust]

Thunder, wtf. Its not that long ago you were posting really bad hands and bitching about your opponents and getting all hurt when senior posters were critical of you. If anyone here should be understanding towards someone starting out I'd have thought it was you, but instead you rip into this guy worse than anyone did into you. Take a look at yourself man.

As for the book, debate it on its merits. Dont shoot the messenger, just point out the reasons why this isnt a great book and point towards some better ones.

[ATOTHEC101]

wow this is preety sad that weve lost a new poster due to a little misunderstanding and hurt feelings. ok first i cant comment on PH book as i havnt read it, but you should take what the majority of senior posters think about it i.e its very average. 2nd, that k9 hand you played was truly terrible, the limp preflop was bad, the calling of the raise oop was bad, then the flop shove with a gutter on a board that surely nails their ranges was even worse, but your a beginner and plays like that are fine, all in the learning process. 3rd, if some slightly more senior posters have gotten out of hand towards you then its their problem, it seemed as if you were handling it fine, obviously you were fairly pissed behind the scenes, and im sure i can speak for the majority of ftr posters when i apologize for their behaviour. Yet you really need to grow a thicker skin and stop overreacting as what was said really wasnt that bad and youre gonna have to accept criticism if youre ever gonna improve as a player.

[Thunder]

Thunder, wtf. Its not that long ago you were posting really bad hands and bitching about your opponents and getting all hurt when senior posters were critical of you. If anyone here should be understanding towards someone starting out I'd have thought it was you, but instead you rip into this guy worse than anyone did into you. Take a look at yourself man.

As for the book, debate it on its merits. Dont shoot the messenger, just point out the reasons why this isnt a great book and point towards some better ones.

Actually, you're quite a bit off track here but I digress.

First of all, the initial reply in this thread was fair and to the point. Nothing wrong there.

Second, these posts came after the comments in the "Middle stages of an MTT" post when he started to take offence at more advice laden info that I had given and started to become abusive and argumentative. Still, read the post again, nothing I said was insulting - despite his deteriorating attitude in other posts.

Thirdly, I had exchanged a number of pms with him before I posted any reply to his posts. And part of that advice was about me in my early days and trying to help him avoid some of the mistakes I made but as usual, he chose to ignore. So no, please don't tell me to take a look at myself.

Fourth, I suggest you reread my posts to him because I did not rip into him at any stage. A longer reply on this is in the last thread he started.

And no, I did not giver anything worse than I received. But back then, I chose to be proactive about it, rather than reactive. And I started to look at how I was coming across instead of blaming the outside world and playing the victim.

[ChrisBCritter]

How come it's not surprizing to me that Thunder is in the middle of another flamefest? In the long forgotten words of Scuba Chuck

***sigh***

You played like an absolute idiot and got lucky. Enough lottery play abounds in freerolls as it is and so what you did was just join the goobers. Enjoy it for what it was - a lucky break - but don't kid yourself that it's good play.

As for the Hellmuth book, it's complete crap. A cursory look at the reviews on Amazon, in the books section of this forum, or the actual review of the book on this forum would tell you as such.

There are many books but just a handful that are recommended. And they too are easy to find if you just open your eyes and look.

Up until this post, everything was civilized in this thread. Other posters had already critisized his admittedly bad play, but you had to go and treat him like a doofus. If ever I need an example of a condescending post, I know where to look. Hope you like your high-horse.

[Thunder]

And surprise surprise, the one person choosing to have a pop is ChrisBCritter. The only man who has a hard on for me.

If you calmed down your raging gland for just one moment you'd see that I didn't treat him any worse than anybody else - you just choose not to see that I did (see 'hard on'). The advice I gave was sound and reminded him (as per our pms) to search and look for the info as well as to pay heed to what has already been said. In fact, people had already mentioned the recommended books and I was repointing back towards them. Also, read the other threads and comments to see the entire history - plus more genuine advice - before you get on your high horse. And note how the majority saw nothing wrong with what I wrote.

As for another flamefest - feel free to point them out. There's been about 2 that got out of hand: The ace rag flush post which wasn't a flamefest and the Char post where he was all pissy with me from the off. Wow - such a high proportion of flame posts!

And there was one, funnily enough, which you tried to start (and which I refused to engage in yet you criticise me - so how's that for irony? Yeah, you. Misperceiving and seeing attitude when there wasn't any. And you came in acting like a chimp in a cage in that thread too. Hey, at least you're consistent.

[Stacks]

<3?

[ChrisBCritter]

You know what; in a way, you're right. I apologize.

To be fair, I did actually do a search on your posts. Your advice is sound, and ONLY in the post I quoted above did I see a condescending tone BEGIN with your post. In the others Mr. Slevin definitely was the instigator, and your posts were very controlled.

Do I have a 'hard on' for you? That's a laughable term, but I think I see what you are saying. I've probably read too much between the lines with some of your previous posts, but I'm far from the only one on here that has had a problem with you. You are stubborn. That's not neccesarily a bad thing, and I am not trying to flame by saying this. You have your views and you stick to them. I am also stubborn. Somewhere along the line, my patience had run out with you in your initial posts here, and I catagorized you into my "Smart Idiot" box. At that point, I did cross the line, and made it a point to "hunt" you. This was immature and reckless. I will stop this now.

Looking through the rest of your posts, I can't help but say that you are a valuable member of this community. You ask some very probing questions, and really try to dissect the game to the tiniest of elements.

In this thread, I think you DID treat him more harshly than anyone else up to that point, and while it may have been unintentionally harsh, posts like that are the reason I get fired up. I don't like to see people (newbs or not) treated like they are dirt; It's unnececary and only serves to chase people away.

<3?

Ok, yes.

[ATOTHEC101]

jesus chris, atleast take him out for a nice meal and a film

[ChrisBCritter]

jesus chris, atleast take him out for a nice meal and a film

If I ever find myself in the UK again, I'll definitely have to try and meet up with some of y'all, Thunder included if he wouldn't mind.

To put my attitude in perspective, I found this thread. I believe that this is one of the reasons that caused me to dislike you Thunder.http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...22.html#591491 A flame-fest this was not, but it was an extreme display of stubborness.

[SoCalBruce]

Well, I haven't read Hellmuth's book yet, but I do have Negranu's and as I posted elsewhere, it's not that good....for beginners. From what I've seen, most of the big superstars don't really write books geared towards beginners; it seems that they, for the most part, assume that you have strong fundamentals in the game, and are looking to improve your tournament play; that's what most of them that I"ve seen seem to be geared towards.

My feeling is, I really love poker and will read most any book I can get hold of, I can make the judgement for myself if the particular book will be of help to me at the stage of development I am in my game. For example SUPER SYSTEM, for me was very interesting to read, but (a) I no way in hell have the experience, or courage to play like Doyle Brunson (b) I will never probably be playing for those types of stakes. My recreational income is limited, and if I have money to spend I am more likely to go to the cardroom now that I am anxious to play live more, but we are talking about $100 buy ins for a couple of hours of entertainment here, not $10,000 for a chance at $200,000 or more.

As far as Hellmuth, I don't know him in real life, so I can't say if I "like him" or not. Is how he acts a character he plays? I don't know. Though everytime I see him on TV he seems to play crazy and bust out, he does have 11 WSOP bracelets right? Can you argue with that, even if you don't care for the man? Think of what it takes to make a featured/final table in WSOP, let alone finish first. Evidenty he must be a pretty good player then, right?

[will641]

seriously lol at this thread. it was hilarious.