Whos 3barreling here?

[XTR1000]

BTN is kinda weakish, calling a lot of flops and turns, but folded to river aggresion before. I dont think he will ever bluff this river, we have some SD value vs his range tho. I think chances are good I get him off 6x/77, maybe 88. If so, how much to bet?
$1/$2 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($253.95)
Hero ($197.00)
CO ($128.65)
BTN ($210.50)
SB ($200.00)
BB ($193.80)

Pre-flop: ($3, 6 players) Hero is UTG 1
1 fold, Hero raises to $8, 1 fold, BTN calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19, 2 players)
Hero bets $12, BTN calls $12

Turn: ($43, 2 players)
Hero bets $28, BTN calls $28

River: ($99, 2 players)

[wufwugy]

start by checking flop

[XTR1000]

is it bad to bet an ace on this flop?

[Robb]

start by checking flop

No, don't.

Imo, you can only check the flop if you're giving up on the hand. Hero raised, and XTR plays TAGG enough villain has to know big cards are likely. Villain flats, so he doesn't have AA, KK and probably not AK. His range is probably just some Axs hands (x > 7ish), some big/suited broadway stuff, a few decent sc's and mediocre pp's.

So I like the flop and 2barrel, here, even though the 9 hits his range pretty hard. But no rr, which he has to think you'll call. So I still have villain's range wide enough that the 3barrel on the river makes sense to me.

Fire away, imo, about $75. A lot of villains in my games fold stuff they shouldn't here, and the ace on the river makes the possibility of villain having had Ax MUCH less likely. If he doesn't have it, he's got to be worried that you do.

[mixchange]

is it bad to bet an ace on this flop?

always bet this flop if you have an ace, nobody gives you credit.


and you can shove the river. EV+ bluff imo as you have shown strength the whole way and there is no chink in your betting line

[Galapogos]

Give up. No one folds full houses. Ever.

[ATOTHEC101]

i wudnt shove the river as if he does have the 4th ace himself u lost yourself an extra 60-70 bucks for no reason. With the pot at 100 shoving another 150 in is a bit extreme imo. I think your line up to the river is just about ok and folow this up by betting 80-90 on river as he should fold alot of the hands you put him on, though i do think he may passively play an ace like this so betting anything past the flop may be a bit spewy.

[griffey24]

This is highly image dependent I think.

If you would double barrel KK/QQ here, then I'd imagine you'd be shoving KK/QQ a good amount on this river too, and expect to get called by worse full houses (and obv sometimes quads)

If you wouldn't double barrel those high pairs on this board, then your range is ONLY quads/bluff so I don't think a river shove would be good then.

[mcatdog]

This is really bad, man. You're supposed to bluff when you're pretty sure villain doesn't have a good hand. This guy probably has quads more often than he has 77-88 6x. Given how passive he is, he'd probably call preflop with AQ-AT Ax and play all 20 of those combos exactly like this postflop. Plus he might not even fold the 77 type stuff that you want him to.

[will641]

mcat is a smart guy imo.

[Marshall28]

lol you guys actually put people on quads? ... im jamming this river so fast all day.

i also double barrel this board w/ basically my entire range ... if hes calling the flop its usually cuz he thinks u dont have an ace ... so by double barreling u get him off of hands that didnt think u had an ace a ton ... and when the 3rd ace falls on the river he is going to have a really hard time calling a jam without it ... and hes hardly ever gonna have it ... theres only 1 left in the deck.

[mcatdog]

when the 3rd ace falls on the river he is going to have a really hard time calling a jam without it ... and hes hardly ever gonna have it ... theres only 1 left in the deck.

incredible logic

[will641]

lol you guys actually put people on quads? ... im jamming this river so fast all day.

i also double barrel this board w/ basically my entire range ... if hes calling the flop its usually cuz he thinks u dont have an ace ... so by double barreling u get him off of hands that didnt think u had an ace a ton ... and when the 3rd ace falls on the river he is going to have a really hard time calling a jam without it ... and hes hardly ever gonna have it ... theres only 1 left in the deck.

its not only quads that people put him on. its a combination of that, and if he going to fold mpp. the third ace falling doesnt really change the value of his hand much at all, unless he had one, in which case now he just has the stone cold nuts. imo the real question is is he going to fold a boat? not does he have quads.

[griffey24]

I think the third ace falling changes his river calling range quite a bit (if he's prone to calling turns and folding rivers still). In that case, I'd say he will now call the river with some of the weaker part of his range that he would have potentially folded had you barreled again on a non ace river.

That being said, this kind of river is probably a good spot to value shove a wider range, but probably not the best spot to bluff, unless you have reads that villain is capable of folding a boat here. You need reads to expect people to fold a boat imo, and that's definitely what he has here.

[Marshall28]

lol you guys actually put people on quads? ... im jamming this river so fast all day.

i also double barrel this board w/ basically my entire range ... if hes calling the flop its usually cuz he thinks u dont have an ace ... so by double barreling u get him off of hands that didnt think u had an ace a ton ... and when the 3rd ace falls on the river he is going to have a really hard time calling a jam without it ... and hes hardly ever gonna have it ... theres only 1 left in the deck.

its not only quads that people put him on. its a combination of that, and if he going to fold mpp. the third ace falling doesnt really change the value of his hand much at all, unless he had one, in which case now he just has the stone cold nuts. imo the real question is is he going to fold a boat? not does he have quads.

i def agree. also why i advocated for a jam rather than a "value-looking" type bet ... i think its highly unlikely u get called by a boat if u jam unless villain just thinks you are retarded spewy.

[Marshall28]

thinking about it more ... i guess my river bet would be highly based on the timing with which he called the flop and turn. if he didnt think about making a decision and just called pretty quickly, id be much more prone to jamming the river than if he thought for a bit on the flop or turn.

which would end up affecting whether i end up merging or polarizing my range on the river. what do i know though, if everybody is disagreeing with me im probably wrong.

[griffey24]

thinking about it more ... i guess my river bet would be highly based on the timing with which he called the flop and turn. if he didnt think about making a decision and just called pretty quickly, id be much more prone to jamming the river than if he thought for a bit on the flop or turn.

which would end up affecting whether i end up merging or polarizing my range on the river. what do i know though, if everybody is disagreeing with me im probably wrong.

I agree with this. If he was making these insta-weakass-calls on flop and turn, it's much more likely that I'd jam bluff than if he was taking his time. That being said, I'd still need a read that he can fold a boat.. cause some players just can't.

Either way, if I'm bluffing here I'm definitely overbet jamming, cause I'd be jamming all my Ax/KK/QQ type hands as well.

[wufwugy]

well like i said, dont bet flop. FE is garbage since he has pos and will float his whole range often, your hand isn't good to induce bluffs, and this is a terrible flop to set up multibarrels. vs most villains you can play your hand face up here and he wont notice, so try to check it down and call one maybe two bets.

as played, river is bad to bluff. wtf are you repping? an ace? hahahah, right. there's only one of those left. KK QQ? eh everybody's always trying to rep those more often than they get em.

the double is bad, but at least it should be larger. dont make it easy for villain to call