why would beginners play stars?

i can't think of any reasons for micro stakes players/beginners to play on PS now - see keith's posts here for clarity.

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ml#post2073057

Originally Posted by Keith re poker stars big rake grab kill rewards program changes

This is the biggest load of bullshit propaganda going. There was no complaints about the reduction in rake , that was the compensation for moving to weighted contributed.You have left everyone with a reduction in the vip rewards and taken back the compensation of reduced rake.

1. since the rewards are now based on how much rake you contribute why is there still a difference in reward rate for FR and 6max?Also why is the vpp multilier per $ not increased to compensate for the lowering of rake attributed to players under WC against dealt.

2. since individuals are going to earn fewer vpps for their play under WC this is going to make it harder for micro players particularly to progress up the vip ladder . why arent the qualifying number of vpps for each vip level being reduced by 20% as well to reflect the %20 reduction in vpps they will earn at the tables.

3.theres lots of other arguments being made at 2+2 but i've just realised . Why am I bothering?. when the talk of WC was brought up just before christmas I stopped playing at stars , signed up at Titan with a cardrunners affiliate deal to get the free HEM2 and cardrunners and clear a first deposit bonus. Ive also got other ipoker accounts with 50% rakeback. For me as a micro 6 max player this is now a no brainer - my play will now be at ipoker as the benefits of 50%+ AVERAGE CONTRIBUTED RAKEBACK compared to roughly 10-15% WC rakeback on stars as a silver star just doesn't make stars an attractive propposition.

No doubt i'll just be 1 of many that make the switch .

I'm considering taking a chunk of my bankroll elsewhere, play cash rooms elsewhere and use stars just for the mtts. What sites offer better rake value than stars?

all of them

***Mass Sitout to Protest PokerStars 2012 Rake Changes*** - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum

well stars still has really good support, a huge player pool, good software, and is compatible with most 3rd party tracking devices

Originally Posted by Imthenewfish

well stars still has really good support, a huge player pool, good software, and is compatible with most 3rd party tracking devices

This.

great support, solid security, good software, (as fish stated)

you get what you pay for.

FTP gone, less competition, worse product.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

great support, solid security, good software, (as fish stated)

you get what you pay for.

Yeah but now that they are so far in front without any major competitors they have a total monopoly on the market, they need to be made aware that their most loyal customers (winning grinders) wont just lay down and let money grabs like this keep happening.

I don't know where else to play.

What other sites allow multitabling (say up to 10), work with hem, have nice software and lots of nl6m games up to 50nl? Full of sport betting fish would be nice too.

every site has its downside ,but places like will hill,paddy power,betfred etc fulfill most of those requirements (software is irksome but new software due out in january , together with their own money grab (oops , i mean reallocation of rake from winners to losers ) .

you can get 50%+ rakeback deals if you know where to look,and you don't need to grind an ungodly number of hands a year to get that level of rakeback and best of all , its possible for us brits to walk into their betting shops to deposit and cashout.

The parent companies are stock market/gambling commision regulated rather than a bunch of thieves nicking the customers money, although the network is quite happy to skim the currency exchange extortionately but savvy customers can avoid that .

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

great support, solid security, good software, (as fish stated)

you get what you pay for.

that may be the case when you are well up the stakes and VIP structure.Those at the bottom pay through the nose for those features. Whats worse is that with the intended rake % cuts that stars were proposing it actually meant a rake hike for those poor sods playing 2 and 5nl on some pot sizes. Rake cuts only actually kick in with pots above $0.59

Code:

   
    pot current 4% linear
0.04      0        0
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0.20      0.01   0.01
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0.32      0.01   0.01
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0.37      0.01   0.01
0.38      0.01   0.02
0.39      0.01   0.02
0.40      0.02   0.02
0.41      0.02   0.02
0.42      0.02   0.02
0.43      0.02   0.02
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0.45      0.02   0.02
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0.47      0.02   0.02
0.48      0.02   0.02
0.49      0.02   0.02
0.50      0.02   0.02
0.51      0.02   0.02
0.52      0.02   0.02
0.53      0.02   0.02
0.54      0.02   0.02
0.55      0.02   0.02
0.56      0.02   0.02
0.57      0.02   0.02
0.58      0.02   0.02
0.59      0.02   0.02
0.60      0.03   0.02

I would gladly pay this price. It isn't like this rake isn't beatable......

Why would beginner's play Stars?

.. idk, probably cuz of that new TV commercial > "We Are Poker"

I have no clue why beginners would play stars. My find who I introduced to poker last year grinded up from 20$ to 250$ in about a year playing off and on on stars. When he switched to the poker site I have moved to he tripled his bankroll in 2 weeks running like dog shit due to the huge overlay tournies + other promotions.

Originally Posted by Poker Orifice

Why would beginner's play Stars?

.. idk, probably cuz of that new TV commercial > "We Are Poker"

This.

Now if you don't mean raw beginners, but people looking for really fishy games, then also this.

ok .......news just in from ipoker

PokerUpdate » iPoker Network Confirms Rake Change

or put simply , the essence like system that they were going to introduce has been shelved and from the 1st March they are going weighted contributed just like stars. For Micro players though , 50%+ rakeback deals can be found and that is cash in your pocket , not a bonus that has to be released. supernova + returns without the hard grind of hands. hopefully the software updates will make the site more playable as well. Alternatively you can grind out deposit bonuses around the network combined with affiliate boosted VIP deals for short term gains.

I would check the rake that you are initially paying on the site you play on, as at certain stakes it could make quite a difference.

For instance, both Titan and William Hill (iPoker) charge a maximum rake of $3 per pot if you are playing 20NL.
Titan Rake
WH Rake (I can't get the link to work, but here is the address)
http://poker.williamhill.com/help/rake-limits-ipoker/

I'm not sure if all iPoker skins charge this as I only checked these two.

At Stars, you can play up to 25NL and only pay a maximum of $2 rake per pot.
Stars Rake

If you got 40% rakeback from iPoker, then you would be getting $1.20 of the $3 back, so would only be paying a maximum of $1.80 rake per pot.
You would only need to be getting 10% rakeback from Stars to make your maximum rake per pot decrease from $2 to $1.80.

lets compare like with like though ? 55% deals are available for micro players rather than 40% that you are quoting if you know where to look, compared to the 10-15% that micro players get with stars bronze/silver.

So that 3$ rake gets reduced to $1.35 which is nearer to 33% rakeback on stars 2$ max rake. not sure what vip level that equates to but comes back to the original point , how likely are beginners going to be able to get the VIP level at stars to get the same rake/cash back that they can get from the start at ipoker without any play qualifications..

Yes, I agree that if you can get a 55% rakeback deal at another site, you would be much better off. I was just pointing out that just because two sites specify 5% rake (or whatever), this does not necessarily mean that you are paying the same amount of rake for each pot.

I just noticed that my point only really relates to 20NL and 25NL though, as if you play 2NL or 4NL, the maximum rake per pot is $1 on iPoker and $2 on Stars, although iPoker charges 6.5% rake for these stakes and Stars remains at 5%.

So I think it's time to move up to 50NL and have a look at other sites.

Best game selection, software and customer service by a mile. And how about the most important issue of them all: prompt cashouts and a good feeling of security regarding the money in your account.

I'm not particularly pleased with the rakeback changes either but when compared with the alternatives I still don't think that it is even close. And at the bottom end of the microstakes (NL2-NL10) it is much more about table winnings than rakeback anyways.

Originally Posted by BlackRain79

Best game selection, software and customer service by a mile. And how about the most important issue of them all: prompt cashouts and a good feeling of security regarding the money in your account.

I'm not particularly pleased with the rakeback changes either but when compared with the alternatives I still don't think that it is even close. And at the bottom end of the microstakes (NL2-NL10) it is much more about table winnings than rakeback anyways.

I'll give you best software, but ipoker have lots of sportsbook fish to play against so theres plenty of game selection. Customer service - ipoker client has a live chat facility and phone numbers to ring support so in my opinion thats better at ipoker than stars email only service.

Mostimportant is prompt cashouts.... yep just as quick for me from sportsbook companies like willhill and paddy power to moneybookers , but even better is that will hill is stock market company so that they have to actually abide by financial regulations and not commit bank fraud and didn't offer online poker to customers who were not allowed to deposit. can you say the same about stars? Uk customers can walk into the local will bookies and cashout .thats not a service you get at stars

Stick to the big bookies on ipoker and your money is just as safe as stars.With stars you can get 1 first deposit bonus, with ipoker you can bonus whore multiple first deposit bonuses and get multiple kickback deal and then settle down to a straight rakeback deal.

So then look at table winnings and you have just as many fish to rape and win money off so, ill say it again at the micros, why play stars rather than ipoker which offers so much more in rewards.

How much experience do you have playing at ipoker ?

ipoker no doubt is even fishier than stars, but stars has equally retarded players up to 100nl.

The ONLY reason I'm gonna move from Stars is RB. But if iPoker software tilts me, or there isn't enough action I'm moving back.

This isn't really related to complete beginners, but I just logged on to iPoker and the games were as follows:

This was at around 14:00 GMT and tables were the standard 100 big blinds
20NL FR - 7 full tables and 1 table with a free seat
50NL FR - 0 full tables and 1 table with a free seat

Compare this to Stars
25NL FR - Around 150 full tables and around 30 with free seats
50NL FR - Around 100 full tables and around 20 with free seats

I've had an iPoker account for a couple of years, but have never really played there. I presume the games get busier UK evening time.

DanAronG mentioned this - Is it possible for multi-tablers to play at iPoker at the 20NL and 50NL levels and be able to find enough games?

What times do you find best at iPoker, Keith? I'm not even sure what stakes you are playing there.

I'm just looking at alternatives to Stars, but am finding it difficult.

uk evenings are definately busier and 6max is far more popular at euro sites than fr . probably because its contributed rake rather than stars dealt rake was. Lots of FR would have stayed at stars long term because they could mutlitable ,dealt rake and gets lot of bonus. I guess at least 50% of stars players probably don't even realise that the points have changed from dealt to contributed.

Anyone contemplating a move to iPoker should definately read this thread i started Important info for iPoker players - Internet Poker - Online Poker Forum to get some pointers of things to do to avoid losing money to currency skimming.

Another thing you can do is multi network and use programs like keypoker (tableninja like) to keep the active tables popping up across the networks with the most urgent first .



I'm not sure about how other people find it but there doesnt seem to be as long a time bank and software restricts the number of playable tables at ipoker to about 12 which keeps the action flowing better rather than waiting for all the other 24 tablers to eventually click fold like stars.


oh and start tables , they soon fill up .

Hmmm, what good is the ability to play tables when there's only 6 available?

That said, it would be nice being able to get a decent sample size for hud stats.

5.15 pm


euro 50nl 2FR & 5 6max
euro 20nl 0fr 7 6 max
£ 50nl 0 FR 8 6max
£ 25+20nl 0 fr 3 6max
$ 50nl 0 fr 19 6max
$20+25nl 1 FR 12 6max

quite a lot of people sat on waitlists so likelyt that starting tables will get filled rapidly

Dunno about likely, just as likely they're a bunch of bum hunters.

x posted this but may be helpful for a noobs that miss the other thread

Actual results of incentives at other sites.

Originally posted this today at 2+2 ,

What you consider to be a good deal for microstakes players , i think is pathetic reward for the rake i pay. I left stars and started december 22nd at Titan through cardrunners , got first deposit bonus , and they ran promos in January which effectively tripled the first deposit bonus rate (total bonus cleared +added so far ~250$), got a free copy of HEM2 (90$),a month + 2 weeks cardrunners ~(45$) and have cleared 10500 points out of the 14000 required for a 100$ cash back (75$).

I cleared 10nl in a month and now playing 20nl , whereas at stars i was pretty much break even at 10nl and typically earning 1200 VPPs per month at silver star.so using your ever so generous VIP package I would have got ~20$ of steller and 25$ of fpp bonus for a grand total of 45$. At ipoker I have more than doubled my deposit and have had bonuses,kickbacks worth nearly 500$. Now persuade me why the hell i'd be stupid enough to come back and play at stars at all?. Once this deposit bonus finished is i can just bonus whore my way round and i already have 55% and 45% rakeback deals signed on other networks..

You have lost me as a customer , and when all your other micro stakes players realise the rewards on offer at other sites you will lose them too.

As for table availabilty, I've been playing uk 9pm or later and there is plenty of choice of tables at 20nl. earlier than that the tables have been a lot less.Tables also seem to be pretty much 6max orientated , but that suits me fine.

Stars going to get tanked once FTP come back online.

I may end up being forced to eat my words
1 - stars are processing my cashouts fast, click withdraw -> $ in bank about 3 days at the moment.
2 - the games are good too
maybe i'll stick to stars for the moment

'why would breakeven rakeback pros play stars?' is probably a better question...

stars is the best

Huey/Easy_Freeman/Poker

graph irrelevant unless in $

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

graph irrelevant even in $

the relevent graph for this thread would stellar+pace bonus+ fpps value line (i.e stars rakeback) and a straight 55% rakeback line and compare them.

Originally Posted by Micro2Macro

graph irrelevant unless in $

agree. it's 25nl. So not that many $$.

apparently you can e-mail [email protected] and they will tell you how many vpps you would have earned this year under the old (dealt) system so you can see how much the new system is fucking you over.

Originally Posted by daven

apparently you can e-mail [email protected] and they will tell you how many vpps you would have earned this year under the old (dealt) system so you can see how much the new system is fucking you over.

sounds like a healthy thing to obsess about.

Originally Posted by kickass

sounds like a healthy thing to obsess about.

lol true - i haven't e-mailed them yet, but figured a few people here might be interested. I probably will e-mail them at some point cos i'm curious

Originally Posted by daven

apparently you can e-mail [email protected] and they will tell you how many vpps you would have earned this year under the old (dealt) system so you can see how much the new system is fucking you over.

"Thank you for your request.

I appreciate your interest in looking at how the changes in early January have affected the VPPs you have earned. I have run the report for your VPP earnings, both the calculated methods' numbers take 'Happy Hour' into account.

Under the old award method you would have earned 906.27 VPPs in January through ring game play, under the new award system you have earned 825.90 VPPs in January ring game play, this represents a 8.87 percentage change."