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Preface: This may come from my math background and my history as a 'winning' BJ player.
Originally Posted by Pelion
Originally Posted by Jager
Gabe fells that this is a + EV situation for him eventhough it is - EV for almost all of the rest of us...
So gabe works out his EV for not folding is positive and calls.
The rest of us work out the EV for not folding is negative and fold.
Still EV. See?
I don't believe this to be accurate. EV is player independent, not dependent. Gabe stated that he called this preflop everytime, not sometimes or against a certain type of villain but everytime. The EV for any hand is the cards we hold vs. the cards our opponent holds along with other factors such as stack size etc. Since we cannot see our opponents cards we give them a range, then we estimate our EV, it doesn't matter who we are the math is built in. If Gabe said that because he can put his opponent on a wider range so he can call with small PPs and it is profitable for him in a reraised pot, I could accept that his EV is higher than ours, however I do not. Therefore Gabe makes a -EV decision preflop, then later makes a more profitable play later that makes up for his preflop decision. Another example of players here who make -EV decisions is when they float. Floating is a -EV decision, they are looking to make a play later that makes up for their float. Massimo on that table with me , Renton and Irish you called a preflop reraise twice with a small PP. After our hand when you hit quads against my AK on that A66 flop, we discussed it. You told me that you thought you could 'outplay' me postflop. From your posts in the other thread, you also thought you could 'outplay' Renton postflop. You are making a -EV decision preflop becasue you feel you could make a better +EV play later.
If we estimate our EV to be negative then we automatically fold? If we determine that our EV is positive do we push if we get the chance? Do we do this on every street? If we play our hands like this we should be playing limit. Playing No Limit, any given hand we may have to put our stack at risk. I don't think that the best players play their hand in a vacuum where every decision is based on their EV at the moment. I think they play their hand more as a whole, looking for the best way to maximize or minimize each hand. They know when to get a way from marginal hands when the pot starts to get out of control, but they also know which marginal hands to push and WHEN. This is why I think that you can find a better spot in some cases.
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