If a dude named durrrr can do it..

[acoss3006]

hello FTR'ers.

I want to be a good poker player. I am currently not a good poker player. Im hopeful this OP/random thoughts page might help me along my way a bit.

Im a 24 year old Aussie. I work full time (public servant - hence why I have time to start this whilst at work). I gotta missus, a house and a dog. Ive been playing for a couple months now on Party but am still at $2NL with a bankroll of $45.

Aspirations? Just to get better. Start thinking before pressing the call or raise buttons. Learn from the guys who know how to play a bit. If I could make my way up, all well and good. I have been completely inspired by a number of OPs here. If mine could be half as successful as some others, that would be fantastic.

So.. I start with $45. Have won two MTT's before (a free Monthly Million qualifier - lost the next qualifier which would have put me in the MM) and a $1 regular on Party for $50 odd. Im going to put the MTTs on hold until I can build a bit of a bankroll.

Better do some work now. Might get a session in tonight - will update at some stage.

Cheers

[dranger7070]

Hey dude, GL! I remember working my way up through 2nl, it was less than a year ago lol and I remember how much of a grind it was. My advice is to just STICK WITH IT! That is the most important thing, don't get bored and just up and decide to deposit more money so you can move up faster. There's an unofficial saying: "Poker will promote you when you are ready." Basically saying, once you are good enough to beat the stake you are at, poker will reward you with enough winnings for you move up.

It sounds like you already have a BR management plan in mind? If not check out some of the articles around the site, BRM is KEY to keeping your OP alive and running.

Another thing, go to the Beginner's Circle and devour everything in the Beginner's Digest. That should help you out quite a bit, it did me. Again, good luck with your operation.

[acoss3006]

Thanks alot Dranger. Your OP is one of the ones I was referring to in my original post.

Yep I intend to play within my bankroll and move up when im ready. I want 20 BI's for $5NL so $100 is the first target.

Played about 150 hands last night, was up $3.50 or so. So not too bad. One thing ive been doing the last couple days is not trying to overcomplicate things too much. Its easy to read alot of the articles on here and start trying to play $50NL poker at $2NL.

I think ive finally accepted that for the most part $2NL players are playing complete junk (some are VPIP <10 and deserve more respect). Though im not completely loose, ive been more willing to call down raises OOP against players I know are morons (I know this isnt optimal poker). I justify this by assuming the PF range I will call with is normally ahead of the range they will raise with. Post flop, they tend to tell you if they have hit something and how well.

The other thing I have noticed is that if someone at $2NL goes all in, unles they are complete aggressive morons, they tend to have the nuts and think going all in is the only way to profit from it.

[tuuk2]

And let me give you a small piece of advice. Walk before you run. Since you're starting out at 2nl, be sure to single table for awhile until you get the hang of it. Don't play 20 tables or whatever until you're sure it's profitable to do so. I rarely play more than a single table at 5nl and I'm doing pretty well. If you find Full-ring boring, try 6-max. It's much faster and you can play a wider variety of hands.

[acoss3006]

Thanks tuuk.

I generally start out with one table of FR until I get my brain working properly and then once i get a feel for the players there I open another.. I tend to end up 3 or 4 tabling and find that to be comfortable most times. If the action is a bit aggro (or im a bit aggro) or I dont feel im watching the action enough or taking enough notes, I cut back to 1 or 2.

Good to hear your doing pretty well at 5NL. Hope to join you in the not too distant. Whereabouts do you play?

[donkbee]

welcome to FTR, good luck with your goals.

[Warpe]

welcome. u sound like a level headed bloke.

[tuuk2]

Thanks tuuk.

I generally start out with one table of FR until I get my brain working properly and then once i get a feel for the players there I open another.. I tend to end up 3 or 4 tabling and find that to be comfortable most times. If the action is a bit aggro (or im a bit aggro) or I dont feel im watching the action enough or taking enough notes, I cut back to 1 or 2.

Good to hear your doing pretty well at 5NL. Hope to join you in the not too distant. Whereabouts do you play?

I only play Pokerstars. It's the biggest so it has the most fish. Also I was able to win some money playing freerolls there and built that into my current BR. It's not that I'm a snob or something, but as an American, it's harder to deposit so I find it easier to play there.

[acoss3006]

Blah. Im a complete idiot. Down to $20, but more importantly than that, I have been too lazy to update the blog and have consequently gained nothing from it.

I seem to win a few BI's, lose a few more. Ive wasted a bit of money on MTTs. Im not thinking before pressing buttons. Im not even putting villians on ranges. Im just trying to autopilot through by playing a tight PF range.

Time to start learning. One goal at a time. No MTTs for a while.

Goal #1 - Get a few hands in tonight. 2tabling. Tight is Right. Use Position. Take notes. Attempt to put opponents on a range.

Post 5 hand histories from tonights session with ranges/reads on this thread before playing again. Seek input from knowledgable FTRers .

[Micro2Macro]

Blah. Im a complete idiot. Down to $20, but more importantly than that, I have been too lazy to update the blog and have consequently gained nothing from it.

I seem to win a few BI's, lose a few more. Ive wasted a bit of money on MTTs. Im not thinking before pressing buttons. Im not even putting villians on ranges. Im just trying to autopilot through by playing a tight PF range.

Time to start learning. One goal at a time. No MTTs for a while.

Goal #1 - Get a few hands in tonight. 2tabling. Tight is Right. Use Position. Take notes. Attempt to put opponents on a range.

Post 5 hand histories from tonights session with ranges/reads on this thread before playing again. Seek input from knowledgable FTRers .

Proper Bankroll management is essential, without it, I can't give any further advice. Master this first please.

[acoss3006]

Will do.

I do like the MTT's but obv I dont have the bankroll to support them..

Thinking more about, playing across different formats probably isnt helping my cash game anyway.

Thanks for the comment.

[donkbee]

Thinking more about, playing across different formats probably isnt helping my cash game anyway.

yeah, it's good to stick with one type of game when you first start playing.

Hope to see more posts soon!

[daven]

where in oz dude?
Get your arse into irc. Read all the beginners digest stuff. Start posting detailed (range, rationale) answers to hands posted in the BC.

I want to be a good poker player. I am currently not a good poker player.

honest analysis like this will allow you to become a good player. I'm going through the same objectivity kick right now.

Ive been playing for a couple months now on Party but am still at $2NL with a bankroll of $45.

get to $300 and 10nl then ask about bonus whoring.

So.. I start with $45. Have won two MTT's before (a free Monthly Million qualifier - lost the next qualifier which would have put me in the MM)

but obviously you would have just taken the $T rather than played the monthly million, cos you know about bankroll management

[acoss3006]

Thanks nish, whereabouts are you playing at?

Daven - im down in Hobart. Take it your from the great Oz as well? Thanks for the comments. I didnt think ahead to what would happen if I did make the MM.. though being early morning Aussie time might have made my decision easier..

Played a few hands last night. Was up just under a BI I think. Will post some hands later. Nothing overly amazing. AA held up in one hand. Hit a couple of sets in others and got paid off.

A couple of things that stick out thinking wise.

I need to spend some time in pokerstove before my next session really getting a grip on some ranges. I found last night I didnt have time to fully consider the VPIP and PFR stats and put the villians on a clear range (it didnt help that at 2NL its very rarely HU - normally 4 or 5 in the pot with varying stats).

I guess the typical looseness at this level means I am ahead most of the time (except against say, a villian with 5% VPIP) if I am playing tight PF and choose to get involved, but it makes it hard post flop to think how well the flop hit their hands.

Any thoughts on perhaps trying to memorise some standard ranges (say 5%, 10%, 20%, 30%) and adjust them based on what opponents are showing down? ie. at 10% pokerstove might give me 99+ and most broadway combos, but if I see villian show down a lower PP I might give him all PP's and a smaller sample of broadways?

The other area I really struggle with is overcards. Particularly if someone has position on me (I tend to raise AK and AQs from every position, AQo from MP onwards).

Standard for me both in and OOP is to bet 1/2 to 2/3 of the pot (I usually consider myself to have 6 outs, plus flush and straight outs occassionally) and if I dont take it down there, try and check it down/fold if I dont improve. Obviously, my lack of clarity with ranges is hurting me here because im not able at present to put villian on a range. I will try and post some of these hands with analysis later on tonight.

[acoss3006]

I didnt get to play last night but I spent most of my work hours thinking about ranges. Alot of things I have read on FTR are starting to click for me.

I now get that Villian has a range for every action on every street on every hand. He will limp/raise/fold a certain range PF. He will bet/raise/fold a certain range on later streets.

What matters to us therefore for every decision we make is how our range relates to villians range. This is why there should be no set rules about what cards we play in certain situations against certain villians. This is also why it is correct to raise our better hands against a Villian that limps preflop alot because we want to get money in whilst we have the equity advantage.

Not just because "AQs is a good hand". Against someone that only ever plays AA and always preflop limps it (extreme I know), AQs would not be a good hand to raise with.

So my thoughts are from all this.. my current game of playing extremely tightly may not be fully optimal against a Villian with a high VPIP. I can afford to raise with a wider range (provided im still thinking about stack sizes, position, etc) because that wider range will retain the equity advantage against this type of Villian.

I was also thinking that the equity I have with my wider PFR range will reduce if there is more than one high VPIP% Villian in the hand. I often get 4 or 5 villians calling a 4BB PFR at 2NL. So perhaps when raising a slightly more marginal hand range PF, I should raise it bigger to cut more villians out.

Obviously im not telling the guys that know what they are doing anything new! Im just trying to think of it a bit more conceptually rather than thinking "Ive got AQs in middle position, raise".

[acoss3006]

New topic title.. the old one wasnt doing it for me.

Have had a reasonable break from playing for various reasons. Now im back and ready to rumble. Off to NZ for 2 weeks from next Sat, but that will be the only longish gap in the thread from now on in.

FWIW, still playing $2NL on Party. Trying to take a 'concepts' type approach to learning..

[acoss3006]

One flaw in my game right now is that im not gettting maximum $ from my good hands. Example below.

I think I should be betting the turn and the river. From memory, I didnt bet the turn because the 5 was a scare card. In hindsight, I dont think villian continues against my flop raise very often here with 5X. Its more likely a weaker Ace or a Jack, probably not Ace Jack as I think villian would raise more on the flop. Im thinking that if villian will continue on the flop with weaker A's and J's, he will probably continue on the turn and river.

So in the end I miss value and fail to protect my hand against potential flush and trips draws.

BTW - should my PFR be bigger?

Hand 1:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($0.46)
UTG ($1.89)
MP2 ($0.76)
CO ($2.70)
Button ($0.62)
UTG+1 ($0.89)
Hero (MP1) ($1.93)
BB ($0.96)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with K, A
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.21) A, 5, J (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.02, Hero raises $0.09, CO calls $0.07

Turn: ($0.39) 5 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

River: ($0.39) 10 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Total pot: $0.39

[acoss3006]

Example #2 - turn bet sizing is completely horrific. I give villian 6-1. I should be betting 2/3s to 3/4s here? Its only really KT, TT, 44 I have to worry about as villian should have alot of one pair K's and T's in his range.

I think I should also be betting the river here?

Hand 2:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($1.71)
SB ($1.98)
Hero (MP3) ($1.99)
MP1 ($1.20)
MP2 ($0.36)
UTG ($2.57)
UTG+1 ($0.72)
Button ($2.13)
BB ($0.39)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 4, K
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, Hero checks, 1 fold, Button calls $0.02, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.09) 4, K, 10 (5 players)
BB checks, MP1 checks, MP2 bets $0.09, Hero calls $0.09, 3 folds

Turn: ($0.27) 6 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.05, MP2 calls $0.05

River: ($0.37) 5 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $0.37

[acoss3006]

I havent seen the BB bluff yet so on the flop I think his range is something like {made flush, flush draw, 33, JJ, AJ}. Not sure on UTG.

Obv the only hand that concerns me on the flop is the made flush. But the presence of UTG helps me alot (pot odds wise) and I pick up another 3 outs each street if I dont hit.

On the river, I dont think 33 is enough of his range to fold the full house.

Thoughts as played?

Hand 3:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($2)
Hero (SB) ($2.63)
MP ($0.69)
CO ($1.50)
BB ($4.04)
Button ($1.62)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A, A
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero bets $0.07, BB calls $0.06, UTG calls $0.06, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.26) 3, A, J (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.21, UTG calls $0.21, Hero calls $0.21

Turn: ($0.89) 6 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.42, UTG calls $0.42, Hero calls $0.42

River: ($2.15) 3 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB raises to $3.33 (All-In), 1 fold, Hero calls $1.92 (All-In)

Total pot: $5.99

[acoss3006]

Should I bet the river here for value? Or is it still a case of 'only better hands will call'? I donked flop to protect from flush draws.

Hand 4:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP3 ($3.47)
UTG ($2.36)
MP2 ($0.48)
MP1 ($0.77)
CO ($0.52)
SB ($0.79)
UTG+1 ($2.28)
Hero (BB) ($1.79)
Button ($0.47)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9, Q
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, 3 folds, CO calls $0.02, Button calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.09) 2, 3, 9 (4 players)
Hero bets $0.04, UTG+1 calls $0.04, CO calls $0.04, Button calls $0.04

Turn: ($0.25) K (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Button checks

River: ($0.25) 7 (4 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, Button checks

Total pot: $0.25

[acoss3006]

I got aggressive here because the min bet annoys me. It nearly always means 'i have bottom or middle pair and i want to buy this pot real cheap'.

I see villians fold alot here and im willing to keep trying this. Perhaps my sizing is wrong? If I made it 0.08, vililan wouldnt have to fold as often for it to be +EV? In addition, I probably should have more than 2 outs when I do it.

The river is spew. Villians range is something like {8x, Kx, TT, 99,77,4x} and I dont beat much of it.

Hand 5:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($3.23)
SB ($2.55)
UTG+1 ($0.40)
UTG ($2.75)
MP2 ($0.81)
CO ($0.37)
BB ($2.34)
Hero (Button) ($2.06)
MP3 ($0.36)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6, 6
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.02, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.07) 8, K, 4 (3 players)
BB checks, MP2 bets $0.02, Hero raises $0.12, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10

Turn: ($0.31) 8 (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: ($0.31) 3 (2 players)
MP2 bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08

Total pot: $0.47

[dranger7070]

From looking at your hand histories, you seem to be fairly passive. According to a lot GS video makers, they say that not value betting enough, and being too passive are two of the biggest leaks that most micro stakes grinders have, and I think you are a perfect example of this. I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, just being direct with you. Learn to bet/raise your great hands. Like calling down with top set on a 3 flush board is just soso bad. Bet/raise/reraise/shove that flop. Get all the chips in on the flop if you can. You have so many outs to suck out, and a lot of the time they will just be on the draw.

Like I said above, you seem to be scared of monsters under the bed when it comes to valuebetting as the ranges you are assigning make it seem like you are crushed all the time, which you most certainly won't be. I don't know if you've been to the beginner's digest, but even if you have, I suggest that you go back and read some of the articles on value betting, and being more aggressive.

[acoss3006]

From looking at your hand histories, you seem to be fairly passive. According to a lot GS video makers, they say that not value betting enough, and being too passive are two of the biggest leaks that most micro stakes grinders have, and I think you are a perfect example of this. I'm not trying to be an asshole or anything, just being direct with you. Learn to bet/raise your great hands. Like calling down with top set on a 3 flush board is just soso bad. Bet/raise/reraise/shove that flop. Get all the chips in on the flop if you can. You have so many outs to suck out, and a lot of the time they will just be on the draw.

Like I said above, you seem to be scared of monsters under the bed when it comes to valuebetting as the ranges you are assigning make it seem like you are crushed all the time, which you most certainly won't be. I don't know if you've been to the beginner's digest, but even if you have, I suggest that you go back and read some of the articles on value betting, and being more aggressive.

Thanks for the feedback mate. I dont mind directness, I want to improve. So keep it coming. BTW - sorry I was a bit warped in the IRC last night, it was a nice night in my part of Aus for once and I celebrated that with a few beers..

I take your point about the ranges I have assigned but I would say that they are based on reads about the villian (ie. in the top set hand I havent seen villian bluff, so the fact he is almost potting the flop on that board with two others in the hand suggests that a decent portion of his range is a made flush or a big draw).

I usually play sets aggressively on the flop but I thought this board was a good exception. My thoughts on the flop were that ive got 8 outs, or a 32% chance of improving. Im ahead of a fair bit of villians range, but a bit of a dog to made flushes. I just didnt see it as a worthwhile stack off at that point. Additionally, I thought keeping the other villian in the hand was useful as he is increasing my pot odds. On the turn, I miss but pick up 3 more outs. But that is still only a 22% chance of improving on the river. Villian is still betting aggressively despite missing if hes on the draw..

Will run this through pokerstove later on and post some more.

Agree value betting is definitely an issue to work on though (hands 1 and 2 in partic = atrocious).