tuff choice on turn w/KK

[chardrian]

POKERSTARS GAME #8605072769: HOLD'EM LIMIT ($3/$6) - 2007/02/24 - 17:38:48 (ET)
Table 'Dorado' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: chardrian ($174.50 in chips)
Seat 2: Carlos278 ($86 in chips)
Seat 3: Sony_rotonde ($372 in chips)
Seat 4: xela ($63.50 in chips)
Seat 6: mary j bluff ($101 in chips)
JKing312 will be allowed to play after the button
mary j bluff: posts small blind $1
chardrian: posts big blind $3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Ks Kh]
Carlos278: raises $3 to $6
Sony_rotonde: calls $6
xela: calls $6
mary j bluff: calls $5
chardrian: raises $3 to $9
Carlos278: calls $3
Sony_rotonde: calls $3
xela: calls $3
mary j bluff: calls $3
*** FLOP *** [4d 5d 2d]
mary j bluff: checks
chardrian: bets $3
Carlos278: raises $3 to $6
Sony_rotonde: folds
xela: calls $6
mary j bluff: folds
chardrian: calls $3

my thought process on the call on the flop was that I would check raise a blank turn (i.e. a non diamond, no 3, or no A)

*** TURN *** [4d 5d 2d] [2s]
chardrian: checks (bingo - time to check raise carlos)
Carlos278: bets $6
xela: raises $6 to $12
chardrian ???? (not what I was expecting - now what??)

[bigspenda73]

Well the guy just calls a monotone flop and looks to raise the turn.....hmmmm....sounds like something you were trying to do.

That, or a guy who plays Ad2x at 3/6.

[chardrian]

Yeah but he flat called a raise on the flop and then checkraised the turn.

My range for him at that point was:

Ad2x, Adxd, 44, 55, 22, A3 (w/or w/out the diamond), and maybe TT-QQ or Adx?

The pot had like $80 in it by that time. So it's almost 7:1 that I am getting. I guess my question is, am I really ahead here 1 in 8 times? If so, is the correct play to just call and check call down or to raise the turn?

[bigspenda73]

YOU look like you have the flush draw so maybe he's thinking he's trying to price you out (which he isn't).

[euphoricism]

Really shitty spot, char. Why no reraise on flop?

[chardrian]

my thought process on the call on the flop was that I would check raise a blank turn (i.e. a non diamond, no 3, or no A)

[euphoricism]

Dont slowplay monotone boards 3handed. Threebet the flop, theres nothing you can do to discourage draws.

[chardrian]

Hmmm - I understand what you are saying and I havent worked out the math, but I still sorta like my line.

Here's my thoughts:

it wasnt about discouraging draws - it was about picking up bets.

If I 3 bet it goes call call. But I then have to lead the turn where it will once again go call/call (unless xela actually has the flush and then it will be check raised and I will grab my ankles and call down).

If I simply call the flop, I get to put the check raise in effect and hopefully gain some BBs - and/or I put myself in this awkward position where I don't know what to do.

BTW - I folded, xela had AdTd, and the other retard had 77 - results say yay!! But overall I'm still not sure if the fold or call is +EV there.

[pokerfanatic]

well I’m a lil rusty at this stuff but I’ll give it a shot...

xelar cold calls PF, cold calls the flop then pops the turn... this could easily be a made flush hand if the guy is a dunk he could easily be on a lot of s00ted hands... Ad2x might be a possibility... any pocket pair not really out of the question... given he is passive cold calling I’m taking him for a donkey and to have a wide range of junk…

Preflop we have 7.5bb (3 bet 5 ways if i read that right)
flop we have if you raise 3 bets 3 ways (4.5bb + 7.5bb = 12bb (little less given the rake))

on the turn you would end up leading probably and getting c/r yourself, thus it could end up being c/r c/3bet now what? if you think that the first guy will most time call you look at 2bb call but if you think it gets caped you looking at putting 3bb in... So you probably figure you are behind here against a made flush or a set, a straight maybe, or a shitty boat...

you figure both your Ks are good and maybe the 2s are clean sometimes...

Probably have around 3 outs... 14.3:1 against pot is offering with the 3 bet on the flop: 18:2 or 18:3 --> 9:1 or 6:1

given the raise on the turn still wont give you the correct odds to draw in any case I think you save money by waiting on the turn to see the action...

i think in Chard spot here it would be a fold... against one player you might be ahead but against 2 players that have bet and raised i think you're way behind...

note: check my math see if i'm good like i said i'm lil rusty...