Profit, Profit, & Profit

Tips and thoughts needed!

Ok so here's the deal, I started playing NL hold'em online in February of this year, I really enjoy the game and I believe I have a decent handle on it. Around the point of June I started playing really well and winning quite often, along with placing in many sit-n-go tournaments within the top 3 positions. I had left in early July to go overseas to work on a new contracting job I have recieved. (Sidenote; I'm working as a Network Administrator for the U.S. Army in Kabul, Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, my support and best wishes goes to all U.S. and coalition forces here and in Iraq!) Since I have left in June I haven't been able to get back online to play poker 'til now and my play has seemed to take a drastic turn for the worse. However, I am slowly getting back into the flow of the game and working my way back into playing well.

I play on Paradise Poker where there are the ring games for NL hold'em and there are the $2, $10, and $25 tables within my sights. At the $2 tables I tend to fair alright and at the $10 tables I can come up with an average of $3 profit per hour of play. While I enjoy the game very much in and of itself, I would very much like to start increasing my profit, there are a lot of things I could do otherwise that would make me more than $3 an hour. I have taken several steps to try and concentrate on maximizing my profits. I have tried to watch the tables for a little while before joining, so as to get a feel for the opponents play and for table selection, however I do not know how to take advantage of this yet. Do I want a table with mostly bad players or good players (I can make a nice profit when I get a good hand against bad players, but I have to have a hand to play against bad players. Also you hardly know what a bad player is holding {ex: You hold 10s,10h: flop is 2d, 9h, 5d - you didn't raise or didn't make a sizeable raise pre-flop because it is just a pair of 10's - You can lose a lot of chips at this point finding out your opponent has 2s,5c} with a good player you don't have to have a hand, but that of course has it's downsides too, so which to choose?)

I have tried to remind myself of the fundamentals of the game and I think that has not been too bad for me, because as you learn more and more, you realize more options you have on plays {ex: at 1st you knew Qx,Qx means BET, but now you have options to slow-play or re-raise, but the fundamentals to BET on Q,Q is the by-the-book play and it is probably correct 90% or better of the time.} Tricky play may be quite beneficial in some instances, but I try to remind myself of the fundamental plays that are by-the-book and are the right play most of the time. There may be times where some situational instances may occur to deviate from those plays, but at the time you learn these new options I think it's good to remember the fundamentals.

I have also tried playing these various NL tables, $2, $10, and $25. I am not sure which value table is a good placement that I should be at. I don't show much of any profit at the $2 table, the $10 table shows a $3 per hr average profit for me, and then I gave away my whole stack very quickly at the $25 tables. I haven't much of an idea why that happened, but I will post a hand history or two next to show my $25 table play. I may as well pick up aluminum cans in my spare time making $3.50 per hour, but it may be best to still play the $10 tables and work on my game and possible profit maing strategies from there. What are your thoughts? I also definitely don't have the concept down with regard to over-betting my great hands and under-betting other my mediocre hands as to maximize my profit, where there are certain amounts that people will call and amounts people won't call to maximize profit. I would like any additional thoughts and tips anyone has regarding turning a profit.

Hand History Examples:

--Probably a pretty-good play even though I am raising from the BB:

Seat 1: badbeat#1 ($2.85 in chips)
Seat 2: booboo23 ($49.50 in chips)
Seat 3: buff0405 ($6.85 in chips)
Seat 4: rrgoat ($44.35 in chips)
Seat 5: jjcon99 ($29.95 in chips) Button*
Seat 6: king flush ($9.50 in chips)
Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($20.45 in chips) Me*
Seat 8: big_rich78 ($13.25 in chips)
Seat 10: davejavu ($20.75 in chips)
CgoRes3 : Post Big Blind ($0.25)
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Ks Ah]
big_rich78: Fold
davejavu: Fold
badbeat#1: Fold
booboo23: Fold
buff0405: Fold
rrgoat : Call ($0.25)
jjcon99 : Fold
king flush: Call ($0.15)
CgoRes3 : Raise ($1.20)
rrgoat : Fold
king flush: Fold
CgoRes3 : Winner -- doesn't show cards

--I called $3.75 with a 6,6 what was I thinking?

Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($27.25 in chips)
Seat 2: adaninex ($25.50 in chips)
Seat 3: larocka ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 4: rrgoat ($40.75 in chips)
Seat 5: jjcon99 ($29.70 in chips)
Seat 6: feenix ($19.75 in chips)
Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($28.80 in chips) Me*
Seat 8: big_rich78 ($16.80 in chips)
Seat 9: farbeyond ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 10: kat23 ($19.35 in chips) Button*
Gambit!!!: Post Small Blind ($0.10)
adaninex: Post Big Blind ($0.25)
Dealing...
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 6h ]
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 6d ]
larocka : Fold
rrgoat : Call ($0.25)
jjcon99 : Call ($0.25)
feenix : Call ($0.25)
CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25)
big_rich78: Raise ($4)
farbeyond: Fold
kat23 : Fold
Gambit!!!: Fold
adaninex: Fold
rrgoat : Call ($3.75)
jjcon99 : Fold
feenix : Fold
CgoRes3 : Call ($3.75)
*** FLOP *** : [ 8h 8d Jd ]
rrgoat : Check
CgoRes3 : Check
big_rich78: Bet ($12.80)
rrgoat : Fold
CgoRes3 : Fold
big_rich78: Winner -- doesn't show cards

--Chasing a straight or flush - were pot odds correct? thoughts?

Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($27.15 in chips)
Seat 2: adaninex ($21.80 in chips)
Seat 3: larocka ($29.50 in chips)
Seat 4: rrgoat ($32.30 in chips)
Seat 5: jjcon99 ($24.85 in chips)
Seat 6: feenix ($18.75 in chips) Button*
Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($24.30 in chips) Me*
Seat 8: big_rich78 ($33.40 in chips)
Seat 9: farbeyond ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 10: kat23 ($18.90 in chips)
CgoRes3 : Post Small Blind ($0.10)
big_rich78: Post Big Blind ($0.25)
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 8c Jd]
farbeyond: Fold
kat23 : Call ($0.25)
Gambit!!!: Fold
adaninex: Fold
larocka : Fold
rrgoat : Call ($0.25)
jjcon99 : Call ($0.25)
feenix : Call ($0.25)
CgoRes3 : Call ($0.15)
big_rich78: Check
*** FLOP *** : [ Kd Td 3d ]
CgoRes3 : Check
big_rich78: Check
kat23 : Check
rrgoat : Check
jjcon99 : Check
feenix : Check
*** TURN *** : [ Kd Td 3d ] [ Qc ]
CgoRes3 : Check
big_rich78: Check
kat23 : Bet ($0.90)
rrgoat : Call ($0.90)
jjcon99 : Fold
feenix : Fold
CgoRes3 : Call ($0.90)
big_rich78: Fold
*** RIVER *** : [ Kd Td 3d Qc ] [ 8s ]
CgoRes3 : Check
kat23 : Check
rrgoat : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $4 | Rake: $0.20
Board: [ Kd Td 3d Qc 8s ]
Gambit!!! didn't bet (folded)
adaninex didn't bet (folded)
larocka didn't bet (folded)
rrgoat lost $1.15 [ 9d Tc ] (a pair of tens)
jjcon99 lost $0.25 (folded)
feenix lost $0.25 (folded)
CgoRes3 lost $1.15 (showed hand) [ 8c Jd ] (a pair of eights)
big_rich78 lost $0.25 (folded)
farbeyond didn't bet (folded)
kat23 bet $1.15, collected $4, net +$2.85 (showed hand) [ 2s Qs ]
(a pair of queens)

--Another failed flush chase

Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($24.00 in chips) Button*
Seat 2: adaninex ($18.47 in chips)
Seat 3: larocka ($29.15 in chips)
Seat 4: rrgoat ($40.63 in chips)
Seat 5: j.gravy ($8.30 in chips)
Seat 6: feenix ($21.80 in chips)
Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($25.43 in chips) Me*
Seat 9: farbeyond ($23.45 in chips)
Seat 10: heslope ($25.00 in chips)
adaninex: Post Small Blind ($0.10)
larocka : Post Big Blind ($0.25)
heslope : Post ($0.25)
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Kc 9c]
rrgoat : Call ($0.25)
j.gravy : Fold
feenix : Fold
CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25)
farbeyond: Fold
heslope : Check
Gambit!!!: Fold
adaninex: Call ($0.15)
larocka : Check
*** FLOP *** : [ Ac 7c 8s ]
adaninex: Bet ($0.30)
larocka : Raise ($1)
rrgoat : Fold
CgoRes3 : Call ($1)
heslope : Fold
adaninex: Call ($0.70)
*** TURN *** : [ Ac 7c 8s ] [ Jd ]
adaninex: Check
larocka : Bet ($2)
CgoRes3 : Call ($2)
adaninex: Call ($2)
*** RIVER *** : [ Ac 7c 8s Jd ] [ Qs ]
adaninex: Check
larocka : Check
CgoRes3 : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $9.75 | Rake: $0.50
Board: [ Ac 7c 8s Jd Qs ]
Gambit!!! didn't bet (folded)
adaninex lost $3.25 (showed hand) [ 2c 8c ] (a pair of eights)
larocka bet $3.25, collected $9.75, net +$6.50 (showed hand) [ 7s 8h
] (two pair, eights and sevens)
rrgoat lost $0.25 (folded)
j.gravy didn't bet (folded)
feenix didn't bet (folded)
CgoRes3 lost $3.25 [ Kc 9c ] (high card ace)
big_rich78 didn't bet
farbeyond didn't bet (folded)
heslope lost $0.25 (folded)

--What went wrong here?

Seat 1: Premium Dave ($24.00 in chips)
Seat 2: c.ray ($25.85 in chips)
Seat 3: ChangingSkin ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 6: feenix ($21.45 in chips)
Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($18.03 in chips) Me*
Seat 8: big_rich78 ($30.30 in chips)
Seat 9: farbeyond ($34.15 in chips)
Seat 10: heslope ($20.50 in chips) Button*
Premium Dave: Post Small Blind ($0.10)
c.ray : Post Big Blind ($0.25)
ChangingSkin: Sit out
Dealing...
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Kc ]
Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 7c ]
feenix : Call ($0.25)
CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25)
big_rich78: Fold
farbeyond: Fold
heslope : Call ($0.25)
Premium Dave: Fold
c.ray : Check
*** FLOP *** : [ 5s Ks 3h ]
c.ray : Check
feenix : Bet ($1)
CgoRes3 : Call ($1)
heslope : Fold
c.ray : Call ($1)
*** TURN *** : [ 5s Ks 3h ] [ Qs ]
c.ray : Check
feenix : Bet ($1.90)
CgoRes3 : Fold
c.ray : Call ($1.90)
*** RIVER *** : [ 5s Ks 3h Qs ] [ 4h ]
c.ray : Check
feenix : Check
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $7.55 | Rake: $0.35
Board: [ 5s Ks 3h Qs 4h ]
Premium Dave lost $0.10 (folded)
c.ray bet $3.15, collected $7.55, net +$4.40 (showed hand) [ 7s 3c ]
(a pair of threes)
ChangingSkin didn't bet
feenix lost $3.15 [ Ah Js ] (high card ace)
CgoRes3 lost $1.25 (folded) [ Kc 7c ] (a pair of kings)
big_rich78 didn't bet (folded)
farbeyond didn't bet (folded)
heslope lost $0.25 (folded)

Thanks for all your help!! (Cgores3)

11-20-2004 07:19 AM #1
CgoRES3 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Join Date Nov 2004 Posts 6 Location Mental Hospital (Attempted quantum suicide)	Profit, Profit, & Profit Tips and thoughts needed! Ok so here's the deal, I started playing NL hold'em online in February of this year, I really enjoy the game and I believe I have a decent handle on it. Around the point of June I started playing really well and winning quite often, along with placing in many sit-n-go tournaments within the top 3 positions. I had left in early July to go overseas to work on a new contracting job I have recieved. (Sidenote; I'm working as a Network Administrator for the U.S. Army in Kabul, Afghanistan in support of Operation Enduring Freedom, my support and best wishes goes to all U.S. and coalition forces here and in Iraq!) Since I have left in June I haven't been able to get back online to play poker 'til now and my play has seemed to take a drastic turn for the worse. However, I am slowly getting back into the flow of the game and working my way back into playing well. I play on Paradise Poker where there are the ring games for NL hold'em and there are the $2, $10, and $25 tables within my sights. At the $2 tables I tend to fair alright and at the $10 tables I can come up with an average of $3 profit per hour of play. While I enjoy the game very much in and of itself, I would very much like to start increasing my profit, there are a lot of things I could do otherwise that would make me more than $3 an hour. I have taken several steps to try and concentrate on maximizing my profits. I have tried to watch the tables for a little while before joining, so as to get a feel for the opponents play and for table selection, however I do not know how to take advantage of this yet. Do I want a table with mostly bad players or good players (I can make a nice profit when I get a good hand against bad players, but I have to have a hand to play against bad players. Also you hardly know what a bad player is holding {ex: You hold 10s,10h: flop is 2d, 9h, 5d - you didn't raise or didn't make a sizeable raise pre-flop because it is just a pair of 10's - You can lose a lot of chips at this point finding out your opponent has 2s,5c} with a good player you don't have to have a hand, but that of course has it's downsides too, so which to choose?) I have tried to remind myself of the fundamentals of the game and I think that has not been too bad for me, because as you learn more and more, you realize more options you have on plays {ex: at 1st you knew Qx,Qx means BET, but now you have options to slow-play or re-raise, but the fundamentals to BET on Q,Q is the by-the-book play and it is probably correct 90% or better of the time.} Tricky play may be quite beneficial in some instances, but I try to remind myself of the fundamental plays that are by-the-book and are the right play most of the time. There may be times where some situational instances may occur to deviate from those plays, but at the time you learn these new options I think it's good to remember the fundamentals. I have also tried playing these various NL tables, $2, $10, and $25. I am not sure which value table is a good placement that I should be at. I don't show much of any profit at the $2 table, the $10 table shows a $3 per hr average profit for me, and then I gave away my whole stack very quickly at the $25 tables. I haven't much of an idea why that happened, but I will post a hand history or two next to show my $25 table play. I may as well pick up aluminum cans in my spare time making $3.50 per hour, but it may be best to still play the $10 tables and work on my game and possible profit maing strategies from there. What are your thoughts? I also definitely don't have the concept down with regard to over-betting my great hands and under-betting other my mediocre hands as to maximize my profit, where there are certain amounts that people will call and amounts people won't call to maximize profit. I would like any additional thoughts and tips anyone has regarding turning a profit. Hand History Examples: --Probably a pretty-good play even though I am raising from the BB: Seat 1: badbeat#1 ($2.85 in chips) Seat 2: booboo23 ($49.50 in chips) Seat 3: buff0405 ($6.85 in chips) Seat 4: rrgoat ($44.35 in chips) Seat 5: jjcon99 ($29.95 in chips) Button* Seat 6: king flush ($9.50 in chips) Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($20.45 in chips) Me* Seat 8: big_rich78 ($13.25 in chips) Seat 10: davejavu ($20.75 in chips) CgoRes3 : Post Big Blind ($0.25) Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Ks Ah] big_rich78: Fold davejavu: Fold badbeat#1: Fold booboo23: Fold buff0405: Fold rrgoat : Call ($0.25) jjcon99 : Fold king flush: Call ($0.15) CgoRes3 : Raise ($1.20) rrgoat : Fold king flush: Fold CgoRes3 : Winner -- doesn't show cards --I called $3.75 with a 6,6 what was I thinking? Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($27.25 in chips) Seat 2: adaninex ($25.50 in chips) Seat 3: larocka ($24.75 in chips) Seat 4: rrgoat ($40.75 in chips) Seat 5: jjcon99 ($29.70 in chips) Seat 6: feenix ($19.75 in chips) Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($28.80 in chips) Me* Seat 8: big_rich78 ($16.80 in chips) Seat 9: farbeyond ($24.65 in chips) Seat 10: kat23 ($19.35 in chips) Button* Gambit!!!: Post Small Blind ($0.10) adaninex: Post Big Blind ($0.25) Dealing... Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 6h ] Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 6d ] larocka : Fold rrgoat : Call ($0.25) jjcon99 : Call ($0.25) feenix : Call ($0.25) CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25) big_rich78: Raise ($4) farbeyond: Fold kat23 : Fold Gambit!!!: Fold adaninex: Fold rrgoat : Call ($3.75) jjcon99 : Fold feenix : Fold CgoRes3 : Call ($3.75) * FLOP * : [ 8h 8d Jd ] rrgoat : Check CgoRes3 : Check big_rich78: Bet ($12.80) rrgoat : Fold CgoRes3 : Fold big_rich78: Winner -- doesn't show cards --Chasing a straight or flush - were pot odds correct? thoughts? Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($27.15 in chips) Seat 2: adaninex ($21.80 in chips) Seat 3: larocka ($29.50 in chips) Seat 4: rrgoat ($32.30 in chips) Seat 5: jjcon99 ($24.85 in chips) Seat 6: feenix ($18.75 in chips) Button* Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($24.30 in chips) Me* Seat 8: big_rich78 ($33.40 in chips) Seat 9: farbeyond ($24.40 in chips) Seat 10: kat23 ($18.90 in chips) CgoRes3 : Post Small Blind ($0.10) big_rich78: Post Big Blind ($0.25) Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 8c Jd] farbeyond: Fold kat23 : Call ($0.25) Gambit!!!: Fold adaninex: Fold larocka : Fold rrgoat : Call ($0.25) jjcon99 : Call ($0.25) feenix : Call ($0.25) CgoRes3 : Call ($0.15) big_rich78: Check * FLOP * : [ Kd Td 3d ] CgoRes3 : Check big_rich78: Check kat23 : Check rrgoat : Check jjcon99 : Check feenix : Check * TURN * : [ Kd Td 3d ] [ Qc ] CgoRes3 : Check big_rich78: Check kat23 : Bet ($0.90) rrgoat : Call ($0.90) jjcon99 : Fold feenix : Fold CgoRes3 : Call ($0.90) big_rich78: Fold * RIVER * : [ Kd Td 3d Qc ] [ 8s ] CgoRes3 : Check kat23 : Check rrgoat : Check * SUMMARY * Pot: $4 \| Rake: $0.20 Board: [ Kd Td 3d Qc 8s ] Gambit!!! didn't bet (folded) adaninex didn't bet (folded) larocka didn't bet (folded) rrgoat lost $1.15 [ 9d Tc ] (a pair of tens) jjcon99 lost $0.25 (folded) feenix lost $0.25 (folded) CgoRes3 lost $1.15 (showed hand) [ 8c Jd ] (a pair of eights) big_rich78 lost $0.25 (folded) farbeyond didn't bet (folded) kat23 bet $1.15, collected $4, net +$2.85 (showed hand) [ 2s Qs ] (a pair of queens) --Another failed flush chase Seat 1: Gambit!!! ($24.00 in chips) Button* Seat 2: adaninex ($18.47 in chips) Seat 3: larocka ($29.15 in chips) Seat 4: rrgoat ($40.63 in chips) Seat 5: j.gravy ($8.30 in chips) Seat 6: feenix ($21.80 in chips) Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($25.43 in chips) Me* Seat 9: farbeyond ($23.45 in chips) Seat 10: heslope ($25.00 in chips) adaninex: Post Small Blind ($0.10) larocka : Post Big Blind ($0.25) heslope : Post ($0.25) Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Kc 9c] rrgoat : Call ($0.25) j.gravy : Fold feenix : Fold CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25) farbeyond: Fold heslope : Check Gambit!!!: Fold adaninex: Call ($0.15) larocka : Check * FLOP * : [ Ac 7c 8s ] adaninex: Bet ($0.30) larocka : Raise ($1) rrgoat : Fold CgoRes3 : Call ($1) heslope : Fold adaninex: Call ($0.70) * TURN * : [ Ac 7c 8s ] [ Jd ] adaninex: Check larocka : Bet ($2) CgoRes3 : Call ($2) adaninex: Call ($2) * RIVER * : [ Ac 7c 8s Jd ] [ Qs ] adaninex: Check larocka : Check CgoRes3 : Check * SUMMARY * Pot: $9.75 \| Rake: $0.50 Board: [ Ac 7c 8s Jd Qs ] Gambit!!! didn't bet (folded) adaninex lost $3.25 (showed hand) [ 2c 8c ] (a pair of eights) larocka bet $3.25, collected $9.75, net +$6.50 (showed hand) [ 7s 8h ] (two pair, eights and sevens) rrgoat lost $0.25 (folded) j.gravy didn't bet (folded) feenix didn't bet (folded) CgoRes3 lost $3.25 [ Kc 9c ] (high card ace) big_rich78 didn't bet farbeyond didn't bet (folded) heslope lost $0.25 (folded) --What went wrong here? Seat 1: Premium Dave ($24.00 in chips) Seat 2: c.ray ($25.85 in chips) Seat 3: ChangingSkin ($25.00 in chips) Seat 6: feenix ($21.45 in chips) Seat 7: CgoRes3 ($18.03 in chips) Me* Seat 8: big_rich78 ($30.30 in chips) Seat 9: farbeyond ($34.15 in chips) Seat 10: heslope ($20.50 in chips) Button* Premium Dave: Post Small Blind ($0.10) c.ray : Post Big Blind ($0.25) ChangingSkin: Sit out Dealing... Dealt to CgoRes3 [ Kc ] Dealt to CgoRes3 [ 7c ] feenix : Call ($0.25) CgoRes3 : Call ($0.25) big_rich78: Fold farbeyond: Fold heslope : Call ($0.25) Premium Dave: Fold c.ray : Check * FLOP * : [ 5s Ks 3h ] c.ray : Check feenix : Bet ($1) CgoRes3 : Call ($1) heslope : Fold c.ray : Call ($1) * TURN * : [ 5s Ks 3h ] [ Qs ] c.ray : Check feenix : Bet ($1.90) CgoRes3 : Fold c.ray : Call ($1.90) * RIVER * : [ 5s Ks 3h Qs ] [ 4h ] c.ray : Check feenix : Check * SUMMARY * Pot: $7.55 \| Rake: $0.35 Board: [ 5s Ks 3h Qs 4h ] Premium Dave lost $0.10 (folded) c.ray bet $3.15, collected $7.55, net +$4.40 (showed hand) [ 7s 3c ] (a pair of threes) ChangingSkin didn't bet feenix lost $3.15 [ Ah Js ] (high card ace) CgoRes3 lost $1.25 (folded) [ Kc 7c ] (a pair of kings) big_rich78 didn't bet (folded) farbeyond didn't bet (folded) heslope lost $0.25 (folded) Thanks for all your help!! (Cgores3)

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11-20-2004 12:58 PM #2
mike4066 View Profile View Forum Posts Private Message View Blog Entries Join Date Dec 2003 Posts 1,663	Hand #1 Looks fine Hand #2 Don't call raises THAT large with small pocket pairs.. (but you already knew htat ) Hand #3 Fold it.. J8o is crap, even from the SB. Your "chasing a 1 card flush" with a Jack? the Ace or Q of diamonds had you beat.. your straigt is very unlikly to hold up.. fold it while its cheap. Hand #4 You don't have pot odds on the flop, but implied odds can make up for a small bet like this when stack sizes are large. Turn call is still thin on pot odds, and you run the risk of being raised behind by Adaninex... hand #5 You have top pair and a very weak kicker.. I don't see anythign wrong iwth folding here. If your opponents are dumb enoubh to bluff like this then they will do it at the wrong time.

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