Help with leak - calling PF raises

[HarryHatless]

For the last couple of years I've mainly been playing STTs and only occasionally dipping my toes into cash games. But with a new baby in the house I've needed a game that I can leave in a hurry, so I've been playing the 2c/5c 6-max speed poker on the iPoker network for the last 4 weeks. I've been doing alright but I think I have a big leak.


Some stats
All hands
very laggy 27.82 : 23.02
7,490 hands played
$38.04 profit after rake (exc rakeback and bonuses)
5.08 ptBB/100

Hands where I open raised
1,314 hands
$49.83 profit
37.92 ptBB/100

This is where I started to realise that there might be a problem. As my RFI profit was so much higher than my total profit that meant I was losing money overall on all my other hands. So......

Hands where I called a PF raise
400 hands
$35.96 loss
89.9 ptBB/100 loss

That is just horrendous. But obviously not all my calling hands can be loss makers.

Hands where I called a PF raise with a PP
103 hands
$22.04 profit
220.39 ptBB/100

It's worth noting that there are no weak spots amongst my PPs. Even 22,33 and 44 taken as a group are showing a healthy profit.

Hands where I called a PF raise without a PP
297 hands
$58.96 loss
197.51 ptBB/100 loss

Okay. So I think we've found my leak. I am losing massively when I call a PF raise and don't hold a pair. Looking more closely even AKs and AKo are losers for me (sample size of 10 lol). I suspect that it isn't my calling range that's the problem, but the fact that I don't have a clue what I'm doing on the flop (or any street) whenever I don't have the betting lead.

Any help at all with this would be great. FWIW the average VPIP:PFR in this game is 22.03 : 12.68 over 37,379 hands from 4,543 players.

[spoonitnow]

How often are you raising continuation bets? How often are you betting flops when checked to when you weren't the pre-flop aggressor?

[Pascal]

What's your 3bet stats?

[HarryHatless]

Hope this is helpful. Sample sizes are getting pretty small.

From the 297 hands where I called PF without a PP:
Raised a c-bet: 51/147 (34.7%) total loss on those hands $13.11
Bet when PF aggressor checked to me: 26/36 (72.2%) total loss on those hands $1.17

@Pascal. What specific 3-bet stats do you want? I have a PF 3-bet %age of 7% showing a $51.27 profit from 226 hands.

[spoonitnow]

I would suggest to post some hands and see where we're at from there. Nothing stands out as being particularly out of the ordinary from those stats.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Are you taking into account the -140bb/100 you expect to see in the blinds?
BB = -100bb/100
SB = -40 bb/100
(usually it's -50, but $0.02/$0.05 has a slightly smaller SB compared to the BB.)

...even if you only fold those spots.
Can you show stats filtered for position?

[HarryHatless]

@MadMojoMonkey I'm not sure you understand your question. Currently calling a raise with non-pair hands is costing me 197 ptBB/100 (384 bb/100). Even if I was sitting in the BB for every single one of those hands then I would still be looking at a loss of 284bb/100.

Some other stats:
Call c-bet 37.6%
Raise c-bet 26%
Fold to c-bet 36.4%

A couple of hand histories:
iPoker - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BB): $4.87
UTG: $0.99
MP: $4.45
CO: $3.89
BTN: $3.48
SB: $1.36

SB posts SB $0.02, Hero posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has J T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.05

I'm gettting 3/1 and I'm in position so I call this

Flop: ($0.20, 2 players) 5 7 9
SB bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10

I flop 2 overs and a gut-shot. I perhaps should have raised here (and normally would), but again getting 3/1 and having position it seemed like a good idea to just call.

Turn: ($0.40, 2 players) K
SB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.60, SB raises to $1.16 and is all-in, fold

When the K comes it looks like I'm no longer getting the correct odds to call but it looks like a good card to bluff at. Got to fold to the shove - even if it's a re-bluff there's a lot of bluffs I'm losing to eg Ax, Qx.

SB wins $1.52


iPoker - $0.05 NL - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $3.62
UTG: $1.52
MP: $6.98
CO: $6.96
BTN: $3.30
Hero (SB): $5.21

Hero posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.05

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has J A

fold, fold, CO raises to $0.20, BTN calls $0.20, Hero calls $0.18, fold

Against just the c/o raise I would normally 3-bet this to try and avoid playing it out of position, but with the caller on the button I figure there's more value in just calling. Now think this was a mistake and I should have squeezed.

Flop: ($0.65, 3 players) A 8 3
Hero checks, CO bets $0.32, BTN calls $0.32, Hero raises to $1.93, fold, BTN calls $1.61

The almost compulsory c-bet from the c/off I ignore as he is probably doing this with his entire range. The call from the button lets me think that he doesn't have AQ+ because even if he decided not to raise pre he would surely have raised on an A-high 2-suited flop. So I reckon I'm in front and the pot is big enough for me to be content to try to take it down now. I raise and the call from the button tells me that I might not be in front after all

Turn: ($4.83, 2 players) 9
Hero checks, BTN bets $1.17, Hero calls $1.17

No-longer confident that I'm in front I just check here hoping to get to showdown. It looks weak and it is weak. Button shoves. I would have done the same here with ATC in his position (looking to pounce on any sign of weakness), but Button doesn't really have any fold equity and getting over 5/1 I feel forced to call.

River: ($7.17, 2 players) Q

[Deucebag]

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has J T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.05

I'm gettting 3/1 and I'm in position so I call this

Something isn't adding up in this hand history

[HarryHatless]

Pre Flop: ($0.07) Hero has J T

fold, fold, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.10 and is all-in, Hero calls $0.05

Something isn't adding up in this hand history

Sorry, it seems to be a bug in the way the hand history has been converted. The SB is obviously not all-in

[MadMojoMonkey]

Hand where you have JT... It's folded to the SB, who puts a min-raise out there, yah? So you have the effective button with JT against a min-raise.... wouldn't you 3-bet this spot usually?

Other than that, I think a huge majority of the time when you see someone bet the exact same amount OTF as they did PRE, then it's a bluff. If I called PRE, I'd raise OTF.

OTT is probably the worst time to raise, but it's not bad. You can easily rep Kx, even suited Kxs in hearts or clubs. Unfortunately, your timing was off as Villain's 3-bet jam OTT is strong enough to have only a few bluffs in it, and so you're done.

---

The hand with AJs I don't like at all.
I agree with your assessment of PRE. Playing AJs OOP in a HU pot is pretty solid. Playing AJs OOP in a multi-handed pot is just dangerous. I think this whole hand is a train wreck because of this call. Your 2 villains have drastically different stack sizes and you're going to want to play the hand differently based on which one you iso. I say, iso immediately and plan your hand HU based on Villain's stack size.

OTF, I like the c/r. I like your reason for not leading out. BUT when the BTN calls, you have to consider SPR's immediately.

OTT, you're in the hand alone against a shortish stack. You should jam the turn or c/f. It's hard to fold here, but when you're beat, you fold. If the chips are going in, then put the decision (if there is one) on Villain.