Leaks in my game

[Cobra_1878]

OK, shotglass suggested I should post some stats so that maybe somebody can help me identify the leaks in my game. This is extremely embarrassing as I am losing a lot but I need to try and find out what I am doing wrong.

http://i.imgur.com/C1kOY.png

Finally, thanks Pascal. That was the best I could get it though, so still fairly small.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Can you copy/paste your stats for us?

[Shotglass]

You already know this but the pics are blurry as hell. I wouldn't worry about the graph so much as the stats because you already said that you're down like 11 buy ins.

Also, try not to be embarrassed. No one was born as a poker god....

Also, I prolly don't need to write this but make sure you black out any identifying info such as screen names before posting them.

[Pascal]

Download ShareX here: sharex - ShareX - Share anything - Google Project Hosting

Run it in the background, take a screenshot of your tracker (press Alt + Print Screen at the same time). It will automatically upload your image and paste the link to your clipboard. Then just paste it in your post If you want to black out your screen names then press Shift + Print Screen and you can select which part of the screen to capture. Press Enter once you've selected the part and it will upload.

[Cobra_1878]

OK, got it up and running now....please, be gentle haha

[seven-deuce]

Cbet more and steal alot more. Widen your opening range from CO and BTN. If the player that has the button when your in CO is folding too much raise from the CO more than usual, build yourself a stealing range from these 2 positions. Obviously you'll be opening your premiums and PP's throw in so 9Ts suited aces suited kings etc. and depending on the blinds opening ATC as steals can be profitable. If the SB and BB are multitabling auto fold pilots open nearly 100% BTN's and if you're stealing with trash min raise to 0.04 if you have a value hand raise to 0.06.

[supa]

First and foremost problem I see is your vpip/pfr. You need to get that gap smaller. Raise more pre or fold more or both.

This is 6max yeah? You are playing way too nitty pre. This is ok for now as you have not a lot of postflop skill, but you're getting walked on. Stop calling and start raising with more of your range.

If you're more comfortable being a nit and are subject to tilt over huge swings 6max might not be for you.

[seven-deuce]

Cobra i am willing to rail one of your sessions via skype if you have it. I'll try and give you some pointers. You might not want this but the offers out there. Send me your screen name if you want me to.

[MadMojoMonkey]

PFR/VPIP is too low, as supa pointed out. When you divide PFR by VPIP, you should get something close to 0.75.

Your 'fold SB to steal' and 'fold BB to steal' are well over 50%, which means it's hugely profitable for villains to raise ATC into you.

[Hoopy]

Call less, every time you're about to make a preflop call pause and think about the reasons (if any!) why it's a good call. Steal more from BTN/SB if blinds/BB are tight players.

Above all learning how to value bet vs all the terrible players at 2NL = mega monies.

Edit to say don't go changing everything at once, pick one thing and work on it then repeat.

[Cobra_1878]

OK, thanks a lot for the advice.

I was running through a few things on PT last night and noticed that the majority of my losses, nearly 75%, have come from multi-way pots, which probably fits in nicely with what has been pointed out that I call too much instead of raising my hands.

I also lose a lot of money from the blinds, especially BB. I don't know whether this is because I am folding too much, or I am calling too much because I get a "discount". Will have to keep an eye on it.

[Shotglass]

From your stats, other than what's already been mentioned, I'm wondering if you're completing the sb a lot with marginal hands.

[crazzvette]

Also, try not to be embarrassed. No one was born as a poker god....

even thou this may be true , some of us are closer then other's . weeeee all have leaks in our game , thats why none of us are perfect . to find one's weaknesses or one's strengths is in ourselves . other's can point out things to you but every game as well as every hand is played differently . people may point out what they would of done differently but when it comes right down to it , it's what you feel at the moment is what counts . i tend to get bored after an hour or 2 in a game and then start to take chances , and thats just one of my leasks , play your game and hope for the best . to improve one self is to fully understand one's self , gl at the tables .

crazzvette

[MadMojoMonkey]

I also lose a lot of money from the blinds, especially BB. I don't know whether this is because I am folding too much, or I am calling too much because I get a "discount". Will have to keep an eye on it.

Well, every position that is not a blind has 0 bb/100 baseline. Any profit or loss comes from when you play a hand.

In the big blind, though, you will run -100 bb/100 if you only fold. Softening this to -50 bb/100 is a pretty solid stat.

Likewise in the small blind, you will run -50 bb/100 if you never play a single hand from this position. Softening that down to 0 bb/100 is a huge improvement.

[Shotglass]

Well, every position that is not a blind has 0 bb/100 baseline. Any profit or loss comes from when you play a hand.

In the big blind, though, you will run -100 bb/100 if you only fold. Softening this to -50 bb/100 is a pretty solid stat.

Likewise in the small blind, you will run -50 bb/100 if you never play a single hand from this position. Softening that down to 0 bb/100 is a huge improvement.

^^^Which is why a few have recommended that he steal more, not defend his blinds more. IMO, the last thing that he wants to start doing is playing more marginal hands oop.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Just an explanation there. No recommendations.

[OngBonga]

Raise lots more pre, call less.

try b/f instead of c/c

Identify villains and exploit their individual weaknesses.

BE MORE AGGRESSIVE.

[Cobra_1878]

The only problem is I don't like 3 betting with many hands. I would much rather call a raise with AJs than put in a 3bet. That goes for a lot of the hands that I play really, I tend not to 3bet with anything below QQ & AK.

Is that too tight for 2NL?

[DoubleJ]

you gotta think *situationally*, cobra.

if the raiser folds 100% to a 3Bet, you'd still call depending on your holding?

[Cobra_1878]

Sorry I was just generalizing. Yeah obviously if it was that straight forward with 100% fold to 3bet, I would do it.

[OngBonga]

The only problem is I don't like 3 betting with many hands. I would much rather call a raise with AJs than put in a 3bet. That goes for a lot of the hands that I play really, I tend not to 3bet with anything below QQ & AK.

Is that too tight for 2NL?

Anyone running a HUD is going to put you on a pretty accurate range when you 3bet.

You're also going to find villain has the initiative post flop when you call, so you're gonna c/f your AJ a great deal instead of b/f and getting quite a lot of folds when it whiffs. You're also not going to get action when you have QQ+ as often as if you 3bet wider, thus you're losing tons of value with your premiums vs people who know how to use their HUD.

By calling, you're not giving yourself as much chance to win the pot. When you 3bet, maybe they fold right there and then, maybe they fold to flop cbet. When they call the 3bet and cbet, well now you know they have something they like and you can adjust your continuing range accordingly. But more often than not, they didn't get this far, because you repped so much strength and they are loose passive donks.

Identify and profile your villains and exploit them. If you know donkey A will call a 3bet with ace rag, well 3bet your fucking AJ, because every time you do you print money. Pay attention to what they are calling with, betting with, and how often they fold to bets. Exploit them. If you don't, they will exploit you, and you're the fish instead of them.

I'm not saying 3bet AJo as standard. It's not an awful hand to call to a raise with vs villains who raise wide but fold to 3bets a lot. It's also not awful to fold vs nits. And it's great to 3bet vs people who can't fold an ace pre flop. Ask yourself what villain raises in the first place, what he calls to 3bet, what he 4bets, what he folds, and consider his post flop tendancies too, like cbet %, donk %, c/r% etc.

AJ is one of those hands that can be played lots of ways pre flop, depending on your villain. Couple of days back I 4bet AJ and snap called a 5bet shove, because I knew the villain was tilting hard at me. He showed Q8o. vs most villains, I don't even 4bet AJ, let alone stack off.

This is why it's so important to identify and profile your villains, so you can exploit them better.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The only problem is I don't like when people tell me what I don't want to hear

FYP

Answer this:
Villain folds to a 3-bet 75% of the time. What range can you safely 3-bet with? (What is your break-even percentage to achieve 0EV?) Assume that if Villain does not fold, you lose.

If you even remotely think I'm being rude, or that I'm not being nice to you, think again.

[Miffed22001]

Not convinced at 2nl he needs to do anything other than ABC poker guys...

People still call 3bets with Q8o and c/c down on 8 hu flops for stacks in those games.

I think it would be of more assistance to say that you are going to need to learn to 3bet and play postflop due to the prevalence in todays games, so you need to do some study on this.

But, it doesnt have to get all that fancy beyond value

[OngBonga]

People still call 3bets with Q8o and c/c down on 8 hu flops for stacks in those games.

Fucking great. So exploit them. If they raise/call crap like Q8o, 3bet them for value with hands like AJ. If they chase down any piece, then vbet them to hell and don't bluff them. Make them put more money in when they're behind (like pre flop). Make their already huge mistakes even bigger.

You're gonna make tons of money (relatively at 2nl lol) if you're exploiting each villain differently, according to his own weaknesses.

3betting AJ vs villains who raise/call weak aces? This is ABC poker, my friend.

[Shotglass]

I'm with miffed on this one. I'm not convinced that he needs to do anything more to beat 2nl than to get his ABC game correct, fold a ton and print money.

[OngBonga]

When zoom hit the scene, I played some 2nl zoom for a laugh, to test the standard. I raised any two, 3bet any two, I had my hole cards hidden and didn't look at them until I got 4bet, or they called my flop cbet, or they donked the flop. Which wasn't very often.
I was destroying 2nl zoom, it was insanely easy.

New players are either too tight, or too loose. And they're usually too passive, or too aggressive.

Which means they are massively exploitable. So exploit them. That's priniting money.

What does the book say you do when faced with a raise and you're holding AJ?

"Depends."

That single word cannot be overused in the BC.

[Cobra_1878]

FYP

Answer this:
Villain folds to a 3-bet 75% of the time. What range can you safely 3-bet with? (What is your break-even percentage to achieve 0EV?) Assume that if Villain does not fold, you lose.

If you even remotely think I'm being rude, or that I'm not being nice to you, think again.

I guess I would 3bet with 88+, ATs+, maybe even KQs. That's after this post though, before I had put this up and read what people said I would have just called with the majority of those hands.

Is it ever right to call a 3bet with small PP's? Say from 44-99, I know you get the wrong odds but if someone is 3betting a lot, is it ever worth it?

[DoubleJ]

Not convinced at 2nl he needs to do anything other than ABC poker guys...

miffed and shotty - there's a lot of truth in this, so deffo not arguing w/ you..

trouble is if he does move up to 5NL but takes that "I don't like to 3Bet coz my testicles are too small" attitude, he's really gonna get killed

i think he has a good opportunity here to incorporate 3Betting as a comfy part of his game whilst the stakes are lo.

reckon?

[seven-deuce]

No need to 3 bet that much at 2nl unless the guy as ong says is super fish flatting 3bets with ace rags and Q8o i would 3bet alot of my calling range for value TT+ KQs AQ AJ and KJs. But this is a very specific scenario and you must have that particular villain pegged as an absolute fish to do this. To beat 2nl all you need is ABC as has already been stated, 3bet premiums, value bet top pair or any other hand where your ahead of villains range i.e gonna get called by more worse hands than better, cbet a good % of he time, iso limpers that are limp folding or limp calling folding to cbets alot with playable hands IP. Do this and you will beat 2nl.

[DoubleJ]

Do this and you will beat 2nl.

OK....but then what?

Beating 2NL is not a passport to success at 5NL+

in my experience, the first thing i noticed when moving up to 5NL was the frequency of 3Betting.

If i'd-a got a headstart on that at 2NL, it wouldn't have bin such a shocker

just sayin'

[seven-deuce]

Beating 2NL is not a passport to success at 5NL+

I disagree. In my experience they are practically the same, the same ABC skills apply. There might be a slight increase in the 3bet frequency but its not alot. I think you can 3bet light at both stakes vs the right villains but it's not a necessity by any means to beat the stakes. You'll make a lot more from 3betting your premiums. But you do make a valid point if your not comfortable 3betting or w/e get it out of your system now when the stakes are lowest i defo agree with you there but if you can beat 2nl you can beat 5nl IMO.

[rpm]

Your 'fold SB to steal' and 'fold BB to steal' are well over 50%, which means it's hugely profitable for villains to raise ATC into you.

are you encouraging OP to try to play more hands from the blinds? this sounds like terrible advice to give to a beginning player when you think about how much EV is going to be lost postflop in blind vs button situations OOP with a vulnerable range compared to the fraction of a BB lost each time they make "exploitable" preflop folds. fwiw, 80-90% seems to be a pretty standard fold to steal frequency amongst the players i'd consider "regs" at the microstakes. some regs are higher but they are almost invariably bad nitty regs

[rpm]

to mojomonkey, sorry i just started reading the read from the top and responded to what i saw as being pretty bad advice. i see it's since been discussed and clarified.

to OP, the image you posted hurt my eyes a bit so i was reluctant to dig too deep. i'd definitely start stealing more blinds from the later positions, namely the BU and CO. there are posts on why that works and how to approach doing it in the beginners digest. you seem to be limping a bit too much preflop (as opposed to raising) which can be fine but you need to know when/why to do it.

edit: what are your attempt to steal stats from the cutoff, button, and SB?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I guess I would 3bet with 88+, ATs+, maybe even KQs. That's after this post though, before I had put this up and read what people said I would have just called with the majority of those hands.

Is it ever right to call a 3bet with small PP's? Say from 44-99, I know you get the wrong odds but if someone is 3betting a lot, is it ever worth it?

I got pulled away from the 'puter right after I posted this and I realized that there isn't enough info in the question to really answer it.

Sorry for that. It kind of makes that post a douchey statement. Which I truly apologize for.

[kmind]

I guess I would 3bet with 88+, ATs+, maybe even KQs. That's after this post though, before I had put this up and read what people said I would have just called with the majority of those hands.

Is it ever right to call a 3bet with small PP's? Say from 44-99, I know you get the wrong odds but if someone is 3betting a lot, is it ever worth it?

I haven't read any responses but #1 I think you're going to get a lot of great advice .

But make sure you understand the advice. Not what we are saying, but why they are saying it. The post I am quoting is a good example of how it looks like you might just be taking random guesses in situations. You don't have to do this, but you should take at least an hour and tell yourself why 3betting a certain range in X spot is good/best/profitable, why calling 3bets with small PP is good/best/profitable, etc. You may find that it's never good/best/profitable which is a good thing too.

I think you really need to learn some fundamentals of poker theory but maybe at 2NL you should just get a solid game going with basic knowledge.

So all-in-all, no point to my post other than take in all of this advice, ATTEMPT to learn why we suggest this stuff and continue to learn theory. There's some good posts from ISF/nmber2intheworld/other players.

P.S. What's his cbet stat? I can't see it. Also, is there a cbet success stat? Thanks!

[turboburbon]

Lots of good advice here.

My piece below.

I would say that watching vids where others plays similiar limits to the ones you play can be very helpful. You will easily find some cheap subscriptions on training sites. In your place I would watch the vids from 2 to 10nl, note and then try to execute.

Another thing I could suggest is to invest more to get thr things going. If you can affort it of course. So buy a subscription, watch some vids. Take a roll for 5nl maybe and try what you have learned.

Btw. do you play 6max or FR, how many tables, how long did it take to make those 3500ish hands?

[Cobra_1878]

I only play 6max and only concentrate on one table. I figure if I am losing from playing one table I am only gonna lose more playing more tables. I think it has taken me around 2 weeks to get to the amount of hands I am at now.

[JayneCobbsHat]

I think you need to buy a few poker books or watch some training videos depending on which format you'd prefer to learn through.
I'm assuming you're new to the game and there is a massive range of material out there now which you can learn from.Personally I found the Harrington on Hold'em books fantastic when I first started playing but they are tournament books and a little dated now so I'm sure there are others out there who can give you info on more up to date titles.
If money is an issue (and even if it isn't) just google Ryan Fee's free e-book and you'll find some great advice there.

[DoubleJ]

update:

Harrington on Cash Games: Volume I
Harrington on Cash Games: Volume II and
Harrington on Online Cash Games: 6-Max No-Limit Hold 'em

All good, but then i like books, me

[Micro2Macro]

your low vpip/pfr is coming from not opening enough hands on the button (and probably small blind and cutoff). I just glanced quick tho as I am about to pass out but thats where u should start to open up your game

[tiltingdonkey]

Try stealing more / widen your range from late position. Once you get the hang of it widen your stealing range from the small blind. Later on you can add a good cbetting strategy into your game. Then you can start incorporating a 3betting strategy. And so on. You get the idea. You don't necessarily have to follow this order (although imo I think you should get the first one right before anything else).

Try opening up some 50% of hands from the BTN while significantly decreasing your opens from the early positions. Very few will notice that you are only loose when you have position (even against those who have HUDs themselves but don't really use them to the fullest), so use that to your advantage.

You'll be surprised at how often you'd be getting folds from the blinds too often and that hugely adds up to your winrate.

FWIW my RFI is about 47% from the BTN and something like 24% from the CO.

Oh, and when raising from the BTN don't call 3bets from the blinds too often.

[daven]

you can defintely win at 2nl playing 16-10. Your main leak isn't your vpip-pfr (doesn't mean it can't be improved on though).
your fold to flop bet seems low, but it depends on what you're doing. I suspect you're calling these too much (i don't imagine you're raising flop cbets a whole lot) without a plan.
Your fold vs steal stats look fine.
you can steal a lot more, particularly from cutoff and button
if you want to start 3betting more, start 3betting your button vs cutoff steals
post position stats

think about why you do things.
here are 3:
1 - why do you open AA from mp (rather than call or fold)?
2 - why do you choose to fold 84o from the co rather than steal with it?
3 - why does it suck calling 22 from the bb vs a cutoff open from a nit?