Did I play it right?

[binky bee]

Just after some thoughts on whether I played a hand well or not.

Playing Texas Hold 'em. I was at a no-limit, very low buy-in table in a ring game. I had been playing a tight game and was up on my buy-in by about 60% and very pleased with myself. (Warning signal there, eh?)

My nemesis was newish to the table and playing what appeared to be a sensible game.

I was on the BB and dealt 9d 8c.

Two players called the blind. The SB folded.

So I checked to see what the flop would give me. Qd 10c 9s.

Nothing but opportunities. I bet 1x BB to see what would happen, looking for a straight. Next player called. My nemesis raised 5x BB. I called and next player folded. (Probably too confident at this stage and should have folded myself?)

On the turn we got Js. I had my straight!

I had initiative. I allowed myself to hesitate and take stock and bet 1x BB, hoping that this would be seen as a weak play. I was raised 11x BB and called it.

3h on the river (irrelevant). I checked. Again hoping to appear weak and was raised 22x BB. I called.

My nemesis had been dealt KcKh on the draw - straight K high against my straight J high.

Looking back there was an obvious risk that my opponent also had a straight. His confident betting at the earlier stages suggested a good draw, but that could have been QQ or AA which would have lost to me.

My initial thought was that the my play was bad. Your thoughts are welcomed.


binky bee

[StarGrinder]

Level? Learn about reverse implied odds first. Then learn when you actually have initiative, since there wasn't one time in this hand you had it. Also having a vague idea of what your opponent's range is would help tremendously and all I see in your post is you playing your two cards and your cards only. The time to think about this is each street, not after the hand when you're "looking back at it". Is this live or online?

[binky bee]

A lot to learn!

This is online. Only $2 buy-in, 1c/2c blinds.

OK, looks like I misunderstood the term 'initiative'. I hope you don't mind that I looked into that first as it looked easier to get to the bottom of.

Reverse implied odds next.

Thanks for taking the time.

Also, lesson learned on reading FAQ before posting - I'll try and post in a better format next time folks.

[StarGrinder]

To quote a degenerate doctor here on FTR, it's "no big deal". But holy fucking kudos for actually reading the FAQ bro. You're probably in the 1% of new posters that actually reads that thing haha.

Regarding initiative, you have it when you're the aggressor in the hand, like when you've raised preflop and someone just calls. You have initiative going in to the flop then. In this specific hand, it's a limped pot so no one has shown any aggression at all. It's also very hard to put villain on KK since the tard limped in but not that hard to include Kx in his range.

[DoubleJ]

Holy Carp!

wot's this? the Battle of the Avatars!

[WeaselT]

mmm put em together....

[OngBonga]

c/f flop, your hand is trash on this flop.

Also, learn how to read boards, and learn how to bet. If you bet like 70% of the pot when you make the straight, you can be sure that only a king is raising you, so you can fold without losing any more, while sets still call, so do some 2pr hands if villain can't let go. But when you bet 1bb, you get raised light. That's great if you're doing it to induce a raise, but choose better hands than this, on better boards, and do it against people who you know like to spew when they perceive weakness.

[binky bee]

c/f flop, your hand is trash on this flop.

Thanks OngBonga.

Can I make sure first of all that I understood your advice. Then why?

Are you saying that I should have checked after the flop and then folded? ("c/f flop")? And by the way, I am not trying to criticise you for using 'poker language', slang or whatever it is - I need to learn it!

Secondly, are you saying that my hand was trash because of those pesky reverse implied odds mentioned by StarGrinder? Or was the hand trash in itself? Or even a more tricky combination of the two answers, like a potential straight with a lowish high card is a trash hand, full stop, because it always involves bad reverse implied odds?

[OngBonga]

yeah, c/f flop = check, then fold to bet... b/f means bet, then fold to raise, b/c is bet, then call to raise, b/r = bet/raise.

Your hand is trash because on the flop you have bottom pair and arse end straight draw. The reverse implied odds greatly outweigh any implied odds you have... what can pay you off? You win very little when you have the best hand, because it's a scary board and even JJJ is going to tread carefully. When you're seeing villain put lots of money into the pot, you're almost always beat in this spot, it's nearly always Kx, you only beat a bluff. So when you win, you win very little, when you lose you lose a lot.

Thus, just throw your hand away on the flop before you get into trouble.

[OngBonga]

By the way, if villain checks flop after you check, then I b/f turn, and I'm betting 60-70% of the pot. Sets call, some 2pr call, king raises, so we fold when we see a raise, then reasses the river when we're flat called, if it doesn't pair the board thenpossibly b/f, or c/c (check/call), but not b/c. If board pairs, c/f probably. I hate it when we make the straight, it's not a good spot to be in.

[binky bee]

By the way, if villain checks flop after you check, then I b/f turn, and I'm betting 60-70% of the pot. Sets call, some 2pr call, king raises, so we fold when we see a raise, then reasses the river when we're flat called, if it doesn't pair the board thenpossibly b/f, or c/c (check/call), but not b/c. If board pairs, c/f probably. I hate it when we make the straight, it's not a good spot to be in.

OK, ima work that all out in slow time with a few Google searches! But just so as I can asses the weight I should attach to your advice.... do you win?!

[OngBonga]

I win when I make the effort to play people's ranges. I don't win when I play lazy poker.

[binky bee]

I win when I make the effort to play people's ranges. I don't win when I play lazy poker.

Good enough for me!