min 3 bettor gets me in trouble

[kickass]

villain is 23/10 0 3b over 3 orbits no notes

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
8 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($4.30)
UTG+1 ($4.25)
kickass (MP1) ($11.49)
MP2 ($10.37)
CO ($11.59)
BTN ($10)
SB ($10.63)
BB ($4)

Pre-Flop: ($0.15, 8 players) kickass is MP1
2 folds, kickass raises to $0.40, MP2 raises to $0.80, 4 folds, kickass calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.75, 2 players)
kickass checks, MP2 bets $1, kickass calls $1

Turn: ($3.75, 2 players)
kickass checks, MP2 bets $2, kickass folds

Final Pot: $5.75

MP2 wins $5.57 (net +$1.77)

kickass lost $1.80

standard?

[supa]

Iunno. Seems like his entire range is crushing us. Obv not folding pre. Obv not folding flop. Don't think we can continue with this turn. Prolly lost as little as possible so nh.

[EasyPoker]

fold turn obv

[Zorkion]

uh...is it bad that i would be inclined to fold pre?

opp has pfr of only 10%, which is pretty tight, from what ive seen. his higher vpip makes me think hes a bit passive, which means that id probably respect his min 3bet just a little more here.

anyways, point is, were oop against a range that mostly has us dominated, imo. i mean, even on a dry ace high board, are we really ever going very far with this hand?

it might just be my nitty nittiness from having donked away lots of $$ recently, but this hand seems like more trouble than its worth. it might be a leak i have, but i generally give good respect to tight players 3betting in position. is this wrong?

[supa]

We're getting nearly 4:1 pre. Implied odds etc. Not folding pre.

[EasyPoker]

Implied odds assume that we know he's stacking off tho....

I personally don't see a huge problem with folding to most 3bets at these steaks, unless we know he's 3betting light or is just a retard.

[baudib]

I'd fold pre. When the flop comes J72r and we want to c/f flop, it's a sign you should fold pre.

[OngBonga]

Folding pre. I like flopped nuts and JJx flops, we really getting a good price?

[gingerwizard]

meh I'm not folding pre. Implied odds don't mean you stack him off every time, they can just mean having better odds than the naked pot odds suggest.

His range may have us crushed, but AJs can flop well (like TPTK + fd) and villains who min-raise pre-flop often don't bet enough on any street (giving you even better odds to draw than usual). If you combine a tendency to not v-bet enough with a supposed nutty range that villain will find hard to fold to at least one big bet, I'd say if you hit villain is offering tasty implied odds pre-flop.

As for the flop, this is almost like missing, but I don't mind the way you played it.

[gingerwizard]

actually, I think maybe folding the flop is better. The problem with calling a bet there when you perceive you are drawing to 4 cards is that you ruin the implied odds from pre-flop. If you decide, based on your stats or whatever that villain has a nutty range preflop and you are going to call based on hitting a hand with decent equity against that range, you should fold if you don't.

[kickass]

thanks wizard, thats my opinion too. folding flop is better he has me crushed I have 4 outs. I thought this would be what everyone said surprised to hear everyone wanting a preflop fold although but if I cant get away when I hit weak then I agree that fold pre would be better.
thanks all