5NL AA in the BB, 4bet pot

[nonofyobiz]

preflop obv he's got a big hand like JJ+, pretty solid player 15/9 over 140 hands. I figured a 5bet would make it obv I had AA, but on that flop I'm thinking afterwards that is scary for me because now I'm only beating KK.

Should I have been more conservative after the flop?

pstove says it's pretty much a flip with a range of JJ+, AKh

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

saw flop | saw showdown

MP ($1.53)
CO ($5)
Button ($5.12)
SB ($5.32)
Hero (BB) ($6.18)
UTG ($1.94)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A, A
3 folds, Button bets $0.15, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.35, Button raises to $0.70, Hero calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.42) 7, Q, J (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $0.67, Hero raises to $2.10, Button raises to $4.42 (All-In), Hero calls $2.32

Turn: ($10.26) 3 (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($10.26) 4 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $10.26 | Rake: $0.50

Results below:
Button had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Hero had A, A (one pair, Aces).
Outcome: Hero won $9.76

[supa]

I like 5 betting pre. He's either got air or he's got a hand he likes.

Flop I think we raise smaller but knowing the outcome it worked just fine.

Fwiw, hiding the outcome is as bad as showing it coz us humans are nosey sons of bitches.

[daven]

3b bigger. 5b or not, both are fine.

I like 5 betting pre. He's either got air or he's got a hand he likes..

if we 5b we don't get more $$ from his air.

[iLike]

3b bigger. 5b or not, both are fine.


if we 5b we don't get more $$ from his air.

Considering that villain is not a maniac but seems solid, do you think, you'll get any more $$ from his air, after you called his 4-bet unless he hit the flop hard?

[rpm]

as a standard size i typically 3bet 3.5x the open raise out of the blinds (if there are no flat-callers imbetween), in this case i think we should make it $0.5 or $0.55. as played i'd probably 5b it really small (and call all-in) or just shove over. i can't see a 15/9 at 5nl ever fucking with us when he decides to 4b so small.

[Shotglass]

pre - raise to like $0.50-ish then shove

[The Norg]

3b bigger. 5b or not, both are fine.


if we 5b we don't get more $$ from his air.

Does Villain ever have air here given the 4b sizing? This sort of tip-toe betting only ever seems to me to happen when both parties want to get all the money in without scaring off the other one.

So yeah, 3b higher, or risk playing our AA (and maybe KK) face up.

Once we 3b higher, the 5b shove will become much easier, since any 4b will mean we're playing for stacks here, or in the extremely unlikely event that he finds a 4b with a fold to a shove, we've got a huge chunk of his stack without showdown, which is probably OK since we've got as much value as we could expect from his hand without any risk of getting sucked out on.

[Carroters]

Just 3 bet to 4x and jam over a 4 bet. Stacking the 8 combos of AK and 6 of QQ 100% of the time > some stupid fps line where you, for some reason, expect a 5NL to player to fold the nuts to a 5 bet for 100bbs.

[Hoopy]

Hero sticks it in pre because he's not folding.

[Zorkion]

Hero sticks it in

thats what she said.


also, like everyone else said, 3bet bigger. the small 3bet may work against some opps, but against any thinking player, youre just throwing money at them by giving them cool implied odds to stack you on the flop when they hit their set with a lower pp

[baudib]

When a 15/9 min 4-bets he's not folding.

[Zorkion]

hero raises to .35, villain calls .2, with remaining stack = 4.77

so hes calling .2 to win 4.77, giving him implied odds of about 23.5:1, which is plenty for most opps.


to figure out the amount to raise preflop, just figure

(4.97-B)/B = (probability youre going to stack flop) / (1/9)

this means, if youre never folding the flop, you need to be raising to .15+.53 = .68 for him to not be making a +ev decision to setmine a lower pair here.

imo, giving opp a range of jj+ here, doing a little bit of combo counting..jj(6), qq(6), kk(12), aa(1), youre basically even money in this spot. gg


on the other hand, if dudeman wanted to mine you, say he flats your pre raise with any pair, flop comes same

22-66,88-tt (12*8), he folds to your 47% pot bet (in this case, .34 into a pot of .72)
77,qq,jj (6*3), he raises you, and you two stack off, he wins
kk (12), he raises you, and you two stack off, you win
ignore aa for now because its going to make a small difference.

so we get 126 total hands

96/128 = 75% of the time, you win .72, he loses nothing
18/126 = 14.3% of the time, you lose 4.77
12/126 = 9.5% of the time, you win 4.77

soooo...
your ev from this situation is = .75*.72 - .143*4.77 +.095*4.77 = +.311
and his is = .75*0 + .143*4.77 -.095*4.77 = +.228

basically, this shows that because of your preflop sizing, youre putting him into a position where he basically cant make a mistake once the flop comes. The moral of this story is, if youre going to stack AA no matter what, at least dont make it +ev/correct for your opps to call you, so its important that you 3bet him much bigger.


I also appreciate feedback if anyone wants to look at this. I know i didnt include hands like scs or such, but it was just kinda a simpler way of looking at a particular sort of situation.

[OngBonga]

How would you play AK here? What 3bet size do you go to? 3bet that size.

I think your range for villain is good, so getting it in on the flop is fine if we're flipping, thanks to all that lovely dead money.

[Kaaskop]

I would snap shove.

Lets say no A or K hit the flop. Then he might very well fold all his AK hands...money you could have got in pre.

[bikes]

would certainly not snap do anything. flatting pre is obviously fine.

i would lead this flop instead of c/ring though

[Carroters]

This guys probably never folding to a jam preflop, he has no air/bluffs, he is folding some of his range on certain flops. We crush his range. Why the hell would we not just want to get this in pre every time?

[OngBonga]

would certainly not snap do anything.

Best advice I've seen in the BC for a while.

[Carroters]

When a 15/9 min 4-bets he's not folding.

This

[Galapogos]

would certainly not snap do anything. flatting pre is obviously fine.

i would lead this flop instead of c/ring though

Snap ignore this post.

A 15/9 player is not going to be 4bet bluffing. He's also not going to be bluffing post if his AK whiffs. You are also not increasing the value of your AA by calling it out of position without very specific reads to do so. He's solid so he's not going to spazz out post flop. All you're doing is allowing him to control the pot, to catch up, or to find reasons not to give you his stack (ie AK whiffs or QQ sees a K on the board).

Without reads saying otherwise, play standard. And nothing is more standard than getting AA in preflop.

Snap 3bet, snap 5bet shove over the nit's 4bet, and snap accept your cooler money like a champ.

[OngBonga]

I agree we should get it in pre since villain folds to a 5bet like 0.0001% of the time, but I absolutely agree with bikes when he says don't snap do anything; if we snap do something, we have failed to assess all of our options, and we have failed to adjust villain's range. If we're calling an all in with the nuts, then obviously it doesn't matter. Otherwise, it matters.

[lolpwnt]

yeah just make it like .45 pre and go from there, when he clicks it back he isn't doing this with a bluff and given he's 15/9 it's probably like QQ+/AK and given it's an LP vs blinds situation may be lighter. but whatever he's value 4betting, so I'd just 5b now/get it in to avoid him thinking about tricky flops.