Adjusting to isolation.

[whisper132]

So today I played a few hands against this guy in a 6 max table. After a little trashtalk he decided to be lame and harass me. I need help on how to combat a person like this.

We were at a 6max table with 4 people playing. Him, me, and 2 fishies. Every time I raised from any position he called. EVERY cbet he called and led out turn or something. It seemed like he did this with every hand. Whenever I wasnt in a pot, he wasnt in a pot. Whenever the fish rasied and I called he would come along. This whole time. And for some strange reason whenever I made a hand and fired out a double barrel he would always fold. It was the strangest game I ever played. I think my inability to deal with this foe is because im so bad heads up. Of course I can pound on fishies with pure agression running 39/30 but when it comes to these guys who reraise or shove on all my cbets and double barrels I am always stuck in an awk spot.

My first thought was to tighten up so I started to tighten up my range significantly. He did the same to adjust to me specifically and folded whenever I wasnt in a pot, or raised after I folded. It didnt help that he was sitting to my left and had position on me. Maybe thats why he could harass me like that, coulda been the position.

If you guy need more details just ask. I really need to learn to adjust to this.

[Shotglass]

IMO, leave the table and find a better one. That's the easiest answer.

[bikes]

IMO, leave the table and find a better one. That's the easiest answer.

this answer actually tilts me. a lot. please stop posting useless bullshit like this. it helps no one at all and isn't even relevant to the OP's question. just keep leaving the table anytime anyone is better than you, you'll improve in leaps and bounds.


@OP tighten up, wait for hands and then punish him.

[Shotglass]

this answer actually tilts me. a lot. please stop posting useless bullshit like this. it helps no one at all and isn't even relevant to the OP's question. just keep leaving the table anytime anyone is better than you, you'll improve in leaps and bounds.


@OP tighten up, wait for hands and then punish him.

It can tilt you all it wants. We preach table selection constantly so why are we not telling him to leave that table and find one where he can make some cash, i.e. mega fish?
If his opponent is constantly putting him in uncomfortable situations then the op is much more likely to make some big mistakes because HE is tilting and not playing his A game.

Yeah, you're correct tighten up, but it starts with correct table selection.

[d0zer]

shotglass, if you're too much of a pussy to try and beat a table with 2 fishes just because there's a 3rd fish who's "messing" with you, then just quit poker now plz.

There's a time and place to preach table selection, but a table with 3 fish is not one of those times.

so much facepalm

[rpm]

not intending to necessarily follow dozer or bikes' lead, but i think that this table is certainly +EV when you consider 66% of your opponents at the table to be "fish". leaving isn't necessary (just like you don't leave the FR table when 6 of your 9 opponents are fish, even if you can't iso them as wide as you'd like due to some 18/14 to your left or w/e).

if this guy sees you as full of shit (and is thus floating and raising you with a wider range) then tighten up. you're still going to be hugely +EV against the fish because they call too much with a wide range vs your strong range. and as for this troublesome guy - we have tightened up our range so he is less able to exploit its weakness, he'll either have to "settle down" (probably his correct adjustment) and give you credit in spots where he formerly floated/bluff-raised you - which we are ok with. he can't fuck with us near as much now. OR he can continue to bluff-raise and float you with a weak range. this is obviously going to suck for him because our range is no longer weak, and thus no longer susceptible to exploitation by floats/semi-bluff raises etc.

i wouldn't say this is strictly the best approach, we could start doing more complex things like picking out what his weaker ranges are (like, as a gues, his turn betting range when action goes we cbet flop, he calls, we check turn) and adding some semi-bluffs or pure bluffs into our range. i'd advise just tightening up and targeting the fish though rather than looking to take the offense vs this guy who pissed you off.

[Shotglass]

@ dozer: I have no problem staying at a table when there is plenty of +EV to doing so and will normally make adjustments against someone like this, i.e. tightening my range, 4betting lite etc.

We can give the op all the advice that we want but what it boils down to is this: is he going to be comfortable playing back against this guy. He's already said that he sucks at heads up and has tightened his range yet didn't know how to react when the villain re-adjusted.

My advice comes from constantly being oop against him and is geared toward this op in this specific situation. Leave the table. Spend more time on learning adjustment techniques and heads up play. That way when you do come across this type of opponent again, which you will, then you will be able to play back at him and not drop multiple BI's because you're oop and don't know what to do.

Sorry if that sounds harsh or everyone else disagrees, but we each have our own opinion.

[d0zer]

Sorry if that sounds harsh or everyone else disagrees, but we each have our own opinion.

Unfortunately not all opinions are created equal.

OP comes in to ask how to deal with this highly profitable situation and you tell him to leave the table? I hope you charge top dollar your coaching services with expert advice like that.

[bikes]

It can tilt you all it wants. We preach table selection constantly so why are we not telling him to leave that table and find one where he can make some cash, i.e. mega fish?
If his opponent is constantly putting him in uncomfortable situations then the op is much more likely to make some big mistakes because HE is tilting and not playing his A game.

Yeah, you're correct tighten up, but it starts with correct table selection.

This is incorrect. Everyone who blows balls at poker here has preached table selection. Everyone who is good or has gotten good has advocated playing anyone and everyone, reviewing tough spots against tough opponents and improving through that.

[rpm]

We can give the op all the advice that we want but what it boils down to is this: is he going to be comfortable playing back against this guy.

...

Spend more time on learning adjustment techniques and heads up play. That way when you do come across this type of opponent again, which you will, then you will be able to play back at him and not drop multiple BI's because you're oop and don't know what to do.

i disagree with both statements.
1 - we don't have to do anything fancy at all. tightening up is "playing back" against this guy to a degree - we're changing our strategy to one which renders his (counter-)strategy far less effective, if not completely unprofitable, against us.

2 - it's pretty damn hard to spew multiple BI's to someone playing loose and aggressive when running 9/7. i don't advocate playing nearly that tight, but this exhaggerated example shows how tightening up significantly decreases the opportunities this guy gets to exploit us and decreases the profitability of his current strategy. we will still have plenty of strong hands to vbet the fish with (fish prob won't know we have a strong range). even if this guy is preventing us from playing as many hands against the fish as we'd like to, it is still a clearly +EV spot and we should stay at the table as a result.

[whisper132]

Thanks for the advice guys. I really think the root of the problem was the fact I have trouble playing oop against these kinds of stations. Not to mention he was playing shortstacked like 50bbs and could shove alot of turns and rivers.

Playing on cake theres like 4 6max 100bb tables and most of them were filled so I decided to stick it out. I still won money I just became increasingly tilted and this really threw off my game.

[jyms]

Play overrolled and play everyone. There is maybe on solid player at your stakes <$50NL. TAGG, Weaktight and aggressive is not "solid". Learn to beat these people and $50NL becomes easy.

[supa]

Start tables, you'll learn to adjust faster and take care of the not enough tables prob at the same time. As for this particular situation, we really do want to stay at this table but there's nothing wrong with leaving if it's gonna effect your game negatively imo. Just make sure you put effort into working on that part of your game and don't avoid these situations altogether.

[Nekrogovner]

Every time I raised from any position he called. EVERY cbet he called and led out turn or something. It seemed like he did this with every hand. Whenever I wasnt in a pot, he wasnt in a pot. Whenever the fish rasied and I called he would come along. This whole time. And for some strange reason whenever I made a hand and fired out a double barrel he would always fold.

Has it occurred to you to play your premium hands like weak ones? Like, pretend to giving up on turn, and then raising him? And since he is shortstacked you might rarely try something goofy on his aggressin, like shoving your mid pair against his raise etc? You will probably be most surprised of his holdings.

[morningrind]

Hi, complete noob here. I noticed how a few times I had a player behind me start playing back at me after I won a big pot from him. I also tend to just leave if several players sit out and/or leave the table short handed.
In response, I googled heads up strategy, read up on the big concepts and just played ~25 heads up tournaments on Pokerstars at the lowest buy in (I actually broke about even). Heads up can actually be quite fun as it is fast paced and you get to compete directly with one opponent. I think understanding the extreme situation of heads up can help better understand poker in general and after my short short visit to this form of poker I am already less scared when the table is really short handed for a while or someone is stalking me.