10nl - AA raised on the river, what's my play?

[mp77]

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players -

UTG+1: $5.90
MP1: $2.00
MP2: $5.65
CO: $6.05
BTN: $15.40
SB: $10.30
BB: $1.70
Hero (UTG): $16.25

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.40, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.30) 9 3 K
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, SB folds

Turn: ($3.10) 4
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

River: ($6.10) 4
Hero bets $2.50, BTN raises to $6.50, Hero ???

No reads, what's my play?

[iloveaces]

range?

[eugmac]

your bet sizing strikes me as a bit small.

[spoonitnow]

Welcome to FTR! I hope this will be the start of turning your poker career into a profitable source of having money out the wazoo. Now go read this sticky a bit more carefully, especially the part about not posting results http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ds-162741.html

The hand you've posted is luckily an easy type of spot to analyze on the river, and is so common that we have a thread detailing how to go about analyzing it here: http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

You should follow that thread and post your analysis here with your best guess as to your opponent's range, and when people comment on your analysis you will learn much more than if they just answer what you originally asked. I've edited your post to take out the results and turn it into a more productive thread. Best of luck.

[Luco]

Welcome to FTR!

+1 to spoon for the new meds that seem to be working well.

Spoon is right, you will learn a lot more by trying putting down your own thoughts (right or wrong) and having them analysed. See how your hand has been modified to remove the results? this is the ftr standard. Just have a try and explain your thoughts on each street.

[Blazing_Saddler]

Poker Stars $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players -

UTG+1: $5.90
MP1: $2.00
MP2: $5.65
CO: $6.05
BTN: $15.40
SB: $10.30
BB: $1.70
Hero (UTG): $16.25

Pre Flop: ($0.15) Hero is UTG with A A
Hero raises to $0.40, 4 folds, BTN calls $0.40, SB calls $0.35, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.30) 9 3 K
SB checks, Hero bets $0.90, BTN calls $0.90, SB folds

Turn: ($3.10) 4
Hero bets $1.50, BTN calls $1.50

River: ($6.10) 4
Hero bets $2.50, BTN raises to $6.50, Hero ???

No reads, what's my play?

Ok I'm going to give this a shot, as much for my own benefit as yours (Sorry) As this seems to be the kind of spot I get wrong a lot.

Pre flop is standard. You say no reads, what nothing at all ? You haven't seen him/her play a single hand ? Does he actually have a fold button? Or does his call actually mean something other than, " I have two cards I call" It only takes a couple of orbits to work out some kind of idea what you are dealing with.

Flop.

Bet sizing is to small imo. I bet $1.20 here, all kinds of hands you will get value from here in a btn calling range. K10-KQ, (Possibly AK) 10 9s 89s . 10 JJ and depending how bad the player is lower pocket pairs will peel one off too. Any flush draw, and possibly QJ.

Turn.

I bet more again here. Around $2.80 for Value, if you were ahead on the turn, then it is unlikely a 4 has changed anything.

River

Obviously a bad card. After they called the turn bet, pretty much put them on a flush draw, without reads on how passive/aggressive they are, it is difficult to say. Some players raise a KQ on that flop, some will jam a flush draw. A poorly played set that just became a boat is also possible.

Your bet sizing has been so small on each street, that the player would have probably peeled with a wider range. I'm really not sure of the optimal play here. I think betting is probably best, but the sizing is something I struggle with in this spot.

I would usually say this is a bet/fold spot. Call Call Raise smells so much like a flush, and in reality what hands is he raising you with on that river that you beat ? Other than spazzing out with K9 two pair that he thought he was slow playing and just got beat by your two pair on the river. Or of course complete air, but how many players at $10 NL are capable of this move ?

You still have money in your stack, due to being 150 BB deep pre flop, but obviously raising is out of the question. You need to call $4 to win $15.10 which is around 3.5 to 1.
I think it's a fold even at that price, I can't see to many players raising that river with less than a flush, although you do Have the A of spades which is quite a big blocker.


Those are my thoughts, I have to tell you, although I have been playing poker a long time, I am only just beginning to try and work things out myself. My maths could be way out too. I used to just post hands aimlessly , but it really doesn't achieve anything knowing the right play for any given situation, if you don't understand why.

[mp77]

Thank you very much for help.

My thoughts was exactly like in the previous thread.

Player have played some hands without any action. No specific reads on him, but seems to me not a fish.

My Bet sizing on flop is similar every time to confuse players. Even I play AA or air.
Range: KQ, KJ, AK, QQ, JJ, 1010, smaller pairs, flash draw

Turn no flash and blank card, so i bet for value. May be it is to low bet! From this point i think a lot of time flash draws will fold.

River paired. Flash comes. I bet for value half a pot to receive from hands i mentioned earlier. Last thoughts was that it was slowplayed set on flop and full house on river.

If he had flash on river, very rarely i would receive raise because of paired cards.

Even it is flash of full house i think i am bitted here.

[Blazing_Saddler]

It's a flush by the way, I'm not taking the micky honest, just telling you.

I have played a ton of hands at $10 NL, there are a few things in your last post that aren't really correct, or neccessary at this level.

Betting the same amounts to confuse opponents. It is a good habit to get in to, but you don't need to play unexploitable against players that aren't paying any attention. Betting to small is probably quite a big leak because you aren't getting as much value out of your hands as you could, and at this level at least you are a little bit more likely to get peeled when you bluff if you bet small. It really is a case of betting hard for value, if they have any kind of hand you will get called down a lot. Of course if you have some idea what their range is, you can exploit players even more. This is something I am working hard on now.

90% of players wont fold a flush draw! Some will jam them, some will call you down, but very few fold them.

It doesn't apply to your hand really, as you don't beat a full house or a flush, but players will raise a flush on a paired board on the river. It happens all the time to me, usually they will slow play their flush on the turn, then try and get all the money in when they are beat on the river !

You didn't bet half pot (Or anywhere near it really) On the river, and it looked a bit like a blocker bet, which could possibly be more reason to get raised by slightly weaker hands, although it is still more likely that he has a big hand.

[spoonitnow]

It's a flush by the way, I'm not taking the micky honest, just telling you.

Around here we put opponents on ranges.

[surviva316]

as far as bet sizing goes, with our hand on this board, our plan is obviously going to be to b(/f most likely) all 3 streets for value, unless the board runs out really ugly, so since it's 10nl and no one's ever folding a K regardless of bet sizing, we generally want to bet the flop and the turn an amount that leaves a feasible shove behind on the river.

this takes doing a lot of simple math in a very small amount of time that you're afforded to make a decision. i think 1.20 --> 1.30 on flop leaves 3.60 --> 3.70 on turn which leaves 10.20 left behind --> 10.50 pot.

as far as river decision goes, your analysis is decent. if i'm hearing you correctly, a translation might be "his range his strong, and we're usually beat, but we're getting good pot odds." this is a great start to get a decent, superficial idea of where we stand in the hand, but you can get a more precise answer by actually calculating what exact equity you need for a call to be correct and then to use pokerstove to see exactly how many really weird bluffs/extremely thin value plays with KQ need to be in his range for us to achieve that equity.

once you figure all that out, the next step would be to check your work here ("checking your work" would mainly include a bunch of bickering over the range you put him on for the river raise), and now you're playing poker

[Blazing_Saddler]

Around here we put opponents on ranges.

I did try to in my post, even if I did it badly, and I meant a flush opposed to a flash. I wasn't sure if his English wasn't to clever, or what have you. Everything to do with poker might be to do with ranges, but no everything in life is.

Still, it gave you a chance to belittle someone else, I bet you feel real good inside now don't you ?

I'm off to take my daughter to school, while you think about who else you can put down.

[eugmac]

Still, it gave you a chance to belittle someone else, I bet you feel real good inside now don't you ?

I'm off to take my daughter to school, while you think about who else you can put down.

Try not to take it personally.

[Blazing_Saddler]

Try not to take it personally.

I know it's not personal. It's not like I didn't make an attempt in my post to use ranges, it may have been the worst attempt ever in the world, so if he had said that, then I would have accepted that, and asked what else I should have done.

I read all of Spoon's post in the BC, they are always full of top content. I subscribe to his site, and get quality emails from there. So I do have respect for him, and what he does.

However it was just another excuse to roll out a line imo. I have skills that other people don't have too, Skills that I teach people, I have always found that making people feel small doesn't get the most out of them.

[surviva316]

lol <3 BC

[bigspenda73]

I'd bet the turn bigger and just c/f the river, if he was a nit and you were like 100bb deeper you could 3bet bluff jam.

[ljove]

your bets were small
You let him to draw flush(maybe)
He can raise your bet just with K
You should call this raise because of AA(If he raised you with all in preflop what would you do?)

[Belt]

I don't have any problem with flop sizing but turn must have been bigger I think. I beleive this is close because you have the Ac and that decreases the number of FD combos in his range.

You should call this raise because of AA(If he raised you with all in preflop what would you do?)

I really don't like this reasoning.

[kiwiMark]

I did try to in my post, even if I did it badly, and I meant a flush opposed to a flash. I wasn't sure if his English wasn't to clever, or what have you. Everything to do with poker might be to do with ranges, but no everything in life is.

Still, it gave you a chance to belittle someone else, I bet you feel real good inside now don't you ?

I'm off to take my daughter to school, while you think about who else you can put down.

WHEEEE MISUNDERSTANDAMENTS.

1. OP writes 'flash' instead of 'flush'.

2. Blazing_Saddler corrects the english, pointing out "it's a flush, honest".

3. Spoon thinks Blazing_Saddler is saying "Villain has a flush, honest" and explains to Blazing_Saddler he should put villains on ranges not just guess some cards.

4. Blazing_Saddler thinks spoon is referring to his attempt at putting villain on ranges in his first post and mocking his attempt at ranges.


Kiss and make up?

[Blazing_Saddler]

WHEEEE MISUNDERSTANDAMENTS.

1. OP writes 'flash' instead of 'flush'.

2. Blazing_Saddler corrects the english, pointing out "it's a flush, honest".

3. Spoon thinks Blazing_Saddler is saying "Villain has a flush, honest" and explains to Blazing_Saddler he should put villains on ranges not just guess some cards.

4. Blazing_Saddler thinks spoon is referring to his attempt at putting villain on ranges in his first post and mocking his attempt at ranges.


Kiss and make up?

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