Am I playing pocket 9's too aggressively here?

[xpaand]

The PF raise was just for image. I wanted people to think I was super aggressive.

The flop is where I'm thinking it wasn't a very good bet. I think I bet too hard for having an over card on the board.

I bet heavy on the turn cause I had an open ended straight draw and medium pair. Which might also be too heavy.

Now that I think about it, if the guy had Q's and I didn't hit the straight on the river (which I know the odds aren't too great), I would've been screwed.

Let me know your thoughts please.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($7.40)
Button ($2.95)
Hero (SB) ($2.22)
BB ($3.98)
UTG ($3.25)
MP1 ($6.54)
MP2 ($1.94)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9, 9
4 folds, Button bets $0.06, Hero raises to $0.16, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.34) Q, 8, 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.34, Button calls $0.34

Turn: ($1.02) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.02, 1 fold

Total pot: $1.02 | Rake: $0.06

[loonychune]

Aaaaaaah, but you're OOP! If i'm 3betting OOP, i'm making it 4x.

Come the turn, you are effectively all-in and what's he going to call you with? AQ probably, sets, overpairs. Probably not a single hand that you beat. So you're bluffing after turning a little bit of equity.

When you bet, you have got 5:1 to hit your straight (so you win $2 1 time in 6 and lose $1 the other 5 times he calls) and you win $1 every time he folds. This means:

He has to fold at least 25% of the time to make this play profitable. The more he folds, the more you win.

The thing is, he's not going to call the flop and fold the turn a very high % of the time since we'd expect his range for calling a 3bet to be reasonably narrow. So, we look to extract value from hands like A8 if he is calling pf with a wide range.

[St8ofN8]

I don't mind the bets pf and on the flop. After he calls on the flop I might slow down, although I can't say I haven't made the same play at the micros before. Looks to me like you played it fine against this player.

[trippyhippie]

If you had a LAGG image, I think you played this nicely. I agree with Loony, I would've 3bet this to .24. I think I would've bet the turn a little higher to rep a made str8. I'd probably put him on pairing the q with a good kicker or an overpair. But that's very dependent on the image you have at the table and the reads you have on your opponent.

[ArcadianRock]

The C-Bet is kind of iffy here. If that Q were a T I think it would have been better but the fact is Q is so in his range. These are hands he could call with that beat yours and make sense that he has to a reraise

AA, KK, AQ, KQ (possible), QQ. Although it's not a lot and he could have something around the AK-AT you still want to be careful here. Pretty much you have to ask yourself what is your goal here. If you think you have the best hand a value bet or are you trying to get him to fold because if he has a good hand he's not folding.

You did pick up some EQ with the six but it's not much. I do like how you bet again though to keep the aggression up and represent a much stronger hand than what you had, it could have cost you a lot but it wouldn't be so bad to felt here if he did have A8.

[xpaand]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I'll 3bet higher from now on. Any other suggestions?

[loonychune]

Any other suggestions?

When you heave-oh-fuck-it-i'm-gonna-commit-myself-to-this-pot on the turn in future, think about why you're doing it and what it's gonna achieve.

Basically: Are you betting for value or are you bluffing? If you're bluffing, does he fold hands that beat you often enough to make bluffing profitable? If you're betting for value, what amount is best to make him continue with worse hands? Is betting the best option? If you're gonna bet your stack anyway, why don't you let him put the money in the pot for you - if you check he's gonna bet with a weaker range than what he calls with.

And speaking of ranges: put him on one. In fact not one. But several. What range will he call a small bet with. What range will he stack off with. What range will he bluff when checked to. What range will he check behind and do you want to let him check behind that range. What range does he fold if you think you're behind.

[loonychune]

How do you delete a bitter-sounding tone from a post?

[xpaand]

Very helpful looney. Only thing is that putting people on ranges is probably one of the hardest things for me to do. I have a hard time figuring out ranges. Usually I just think "my instinct says he doesn't have x card, so I can feel confident to bet."

[loonychune]

Pokerstove > Player 1 > Preflop

A good starting point might be to type in the % you gain from opponents HUD. Then start elminating hands based on the action and board texture. Try putting yourself in your opponents shoes and think about what hands you would play the way he has with.

It's not an easy thing to do. I think i'm gonna just spend the next week in the BC telling people what to do and hope I start doing it the next time I play...

[ArcadianRock]

xpaand, putting people on ranges is crucial to do before cards come up. If you know that this guy only plays with high cards and a high card comes up it makes a big difference. If you know he'll only call with AQo+ and the flop hits low, you can play him easily.

[swiggidy]

If you don't hand read well why are you putting yourself into situations where hand reading is essential?

This whole hand is read dependent (which it doesn't sound like you have any reads).

Raising "for image" is a terrible reason. 3bet because he steals too much, or because you don't know how to play 99 OOP vs him. Basically anything you could dream up would be better.

I would 4x this pre, only because he raised 3bb and 3x lets him in too cheap with you OOP.

[xpaand]

looney: Sweet and I'm looking forward to it...

ArcadianRock: Yeah I know but I rarely see players for a long enough time to know what kind of cards they play.

swiggidy: I'm still at a basic level to the point where I didn't know that this hand was read dependent.
I raised him PF to show strength on my hand. I wanted him to think I had something higher and at the same time, show people at the table that I'm aggressive... Is that still bad?
I'll keep in mind next time that my r/r's should be higher on a multiplier level.

[Stacks]

Without reads, I would say flat this preflop. At 2nl, you might get called with hands at times, but even the majority of those worse hands will have decent equity (overcards have 50% equity), and you will be OOP, so unless you flop your set which won't happen that often, if the money goes it you are likely to not be that big of a favorite against his range, if one at all.

Basically you bet/raise for 2 main purposes. To either get worse hands to call, or better hands to fold. We can easily agree he is not folding better hands (TT+, AQ+), so you would technically only want to 3bet here with 99 if worse hands are calling. Him calling with <88, while it might happen, is unlikely.

As far as 3bet size, I make it $0.20 here usually.

[WhiteRabbito]

I agree with Stacks. flat with small-mid pairs OOP, if you get lucky and flop a set, hooray! If you get lucky and there are no overcards on the board, hooray! otherwise you're just looking to play what could be a large pot without the best, or the best position. recipe for disaster.

On the other hand, if this villain has been raising every hand on the button for the last 6 orbits. maybe you want to tell him to lay off and stop pinching your blinds, in that case ok, pocket 9s are fine to make a stand with.

Also I don't like the 'bet pot' which you do on every street. without a big hand out of position you want to try keep the pot small, I'd say C-bet for just over the ammouny you raised him, Cbet for 20c here i'd say. If you really feel like betting again on the turn go for maybe 50c now, still a large bet compared to what you bet on the flop, but you have managed to keep the pot a lot smaller than just 'bet pot'ing the whole way.

[loonychune]

On the other hand, if this villain has been raising every hand on the button for the last 6 orbits. maybe you want to tell him to lay off and stop pinching your blinds, in that case ok, pocket 9s are fine to make a stand with.

I'd rather make a stand with 72o and flat a hand like 99 that's gonna play pretty well post-flop vs his wide opening range.

[xpaand]

Great advice guys. Thanks I learned a lot. BTW Stacks, whenever you post, I feel like I'm talking to the girl in your picture. *sigh*

[loonychune]

I feel like I'm talking to the girl in your picture. *sigh*

The girl in the picture isn't stax? Shit.

[Stacks]

On the other hand, if this villain has been raising every hand on the button for the last 6 orbits. maybe you want to tell him to lay off and stop pinching your blinds, in that case ok, pocket 9s are fine to make a stand with.

I'd rather make a stand with 72o and flat a hand like 99 that's gonna play pretty well post-flop vs his wide opening range.

It's true that if villain is folding a ton we are going to have the same amount of fold equity with either 99 or 72o. And if he is folding enough then it might be profitable to 3bet with 72o, based on fold equity alone. As he only needs to fold 66% of the time to be profitable if we 3bet his 4x open to 11xbb (11/16.5 = .66%). However, given the fact that villain is in position, and if villain knows we are 3betting light in this position, then he should be much more likely to either (1) 4bet bluff us or (2) call our 3bets with position. And when he calls our 3bets we would really like to have a hand that is not absolutely worthless postflop in a 3bet pot.

But as you knew, if villain is folding often enough then it would be profitable to 3bet 72o. However, I still likely wouldn't do it. We don 't need to make plays on a hand-to-hand basis. Instead, we should form ranges for every decision we are going to make. If we feel he is folding often enough, then we should form a range that we 3bet in this spot as a bluff. We can widen or narrow the range depending on the frequency with which we want to 3bet bluff, which is obv based on his tendencies towards calling/folding in this spot.

stacks, I think worse do call
if he opened a hand like T9s/89s/78s he's never folding to a tiny 3b like that

but I think you should check either the turn or the flop
if you fire the flop, check the turn and if he checks it back c/c most rivers if he's at all aggressive