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 Originally Posted by Erpel
Discuss in your reply everything. Start with the basic stuff by outlining how you would seat all the players so it's optimal to you.
I got advice before that we might actually like having a maniac sitting to our left. He is going to be raising us or check/raising us regardless of his position, so let's consider where we like him best. If he is sitting to our left, we can opt to check to him a huge percentage of the time, especially in limped pots. Most of the time he will be betting, and then we can see the actions of everyone else before we decide what to do. Most of the time, we will be closing the action. If we want to give that a shot, I like the order around the table to be 2 4 3 1 (starting with the player to our left and going around). That way, the most aggressive preflop players never have the button when we are in the blinds, and we have optimal position on the station.
Originally Posted by Erpel
For each player discuss which hands you would play against them and how you would play them. Try to get into the heads of these opponents and try to "think along" with them so you know how best to exploit them and put them in difficult positions.
I don't know how much it's necessary to get in these opponents' heads, really. But I do like the advice of considering how we should play each opponent.
1) Raise with hands that have showdown value. That includes mainly high cards and pairs, something like 66+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo, KJo, QJo. Any time I have a pair on the flop (or a strong A-high when I think it's likely best), I'm betting. I'm only c-betting my strongest draws, with any other marginal draws (overcards, gutshots, etc.) I'm checking behind the flop. If I bet the flop with top pair good kicker or better, I'll tend to bet the turn again, otherwise I'd check behind. If I checked behind the flop and he checked the turn, I would bet the turn with any non-showdown-value-10-outs-or-better draw, otherwise if I haven't improved and only have a weak A-high or K-high, I'm just checking behind again. Fold to any aggression obviously without a very strong hand. Bluffing in general is pretty -EV. I'm limping behind him preflop with the lowest PPs, SCs, and a few other suited cards (see below) and looking to hit good in a multiway pot.
2) This is where it really gets fun. You really have to mix up your play against this guy to keep him wondering what you're doing. If he's betting big, you're still better off raising preflop with mainly your showdown hands against him, but since he's bluffing so much you can get value from big draws as well by playing them aggressively. This means that you should be able to add SCs 54s and better and suited 2-gappers 53s-QTs into your raising range, along with perhaps K9s and Axs. If he's on your left, it's going to be really interesting to figure out what kinds of hands you should lead out, what kinds of hands you should check/call, and what kind of hands you should check/raise. Let's split our hands up into a few categories: A) monsters, B) TPGK+, C) big draws (12 outs or better), D) a pair or A-high we think is best, E) a pretty good draw (8 outs or better), F) any other hand.
A) I'm either check/raising or bet/raising, and I'm probably splitting it about 50/50 either way, mostly depending on board texture. He's more likely to raise on a drawish board, so bet/raising works well there. He's likely to bluff at a dry board, so check/raising works there.
B) Here I think is where we get the best value from calling him down. We want to sprinkle in a few check/raises and bet/calls just to mix things up, but I think check/call is a pretty good line with these hands. If we don't have TPTK or 2 pair by the turn, it's a good time to switch to check/raising instead of check/calling, or simply leading out if we think he was on air on the flop and might have picked up a draw or a showdown-value hand on the turn.
C) I'm getting it in. Since this is almost always on a drawish board, I'm leading out most of the time with this hand. Bet/reraise is probably the best line IMO, but it's still important to mix it up sometimes.
D) These are the important hands. They are the ones that we tend to lose a lot of money on by calling down lightly and getting sucked out on, finding out that we were behind all along, or simply folding the best hand. Sometimes leading out with these hands is the right play, but often we are better off check/raising and ending the hand right away. Bet/call or check/raise/call is pretty horrible if we don't have pot odds to improve to a hand we are comfortable going with on the turn. And of course we should be willing to check/fold sometimes, too, in the face of any other reads.
E) We can check/raise these hands as well to help balance out D. In this case, though, we often will also have odds to bet/call the flop. Don't call the turn without pot odds because you have slim implied odds. If we called the turn with pot odds, we can potentially check/raise the river with a made hand if he tends to bet the river with showdown value. If we didn't quite have pot odds to call the turn (generally bad, but sometimes it's really close), then we really need to be leading a made river.
F) These are the best candidates for balancing out your leading-out range, especially if he sometimes folds to a lead. If you see a board that you think he is willing to give up on a decent percentage of the time, then bet/folding is not a bad line to take. I wouldn't do it a ton, but doing it with these hands occasionally will help to balance out those times that you are bet/raising and bet/calling (with your other hands, of course). Check/raising these hands isn't recommended generally, and of course check/folding should be your first option.
3 and 4) This should be pretty straightforward. They will be across the table from you (ideally) and you won't be tangling with them quite as much. Against 3 I'm playing a pretty strong range and c-betting like 75% of the time. Against 4 I'm c-betting a bit less, but I'm going to be more inclined to bet later streets where he might be willing to fold a hand that we are losing to. Specifically I would tend to play draws aggressively on both the flop and turn. If he seems like he's not going anywhere, however, I'm checking behind on the turn with my draws. Regarding your read preflop, the best thing I can think of is to not 4bet with your big pairs. Since you'll be flatting in this spot with a lot of implied-odds hands (SCs and low PPs), also flatting with big pairs that are crushing him should be profitable.
Originally Posted by minSim
Some things worth to discuss imo (feel free to add):
- Profitability of opening up my preflop ranges ( PFR/ call/ limp). Especially in the 25bb-100bb zone.
Not as profitable as you might think. You may believe your postflop skills are much better than theirs, but a big part of that is that you are going in with better hands to begin with. In the 25bb zone especially, you want to be playing pretty tight. As you get deeper you can open up a bit, but I'm not going crazy.
The one major exception is if there are a lot of limps before you, especially on the button or in the small blind, or in the big blind to a small raise. In that case, there are some great multiway hands that would do well to see a flop. The following list is taken from a 6max button open range that I have been playing around with:
Getting 2.5-to-1 or better (1 limp. With higher hands we should often be raising obviously): 22-88, A9s-A2s, KTs-K2s, QTs-Q8s, JTs-J7s, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 75s+, 65s, 54s, ATo, KJo, QJo, JTo, T9o
Getting 3.5-to-1 or better add in: 99, ATs, KJs, QJs, Q7s-Q5s, J6s, T6s, 95s+, 84s+, 74s, 63s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AJo, KQo, QTo, J9o, T8o, 98o, 87o
With these hands, we are generally looking to hit TPQK or better or at least an 8-out draw to the likely best hand. Don't fall in love with a hand that isn't at least 2 pair or a high pair with other outs.
Originally Posted by minSim
- Opening up my 3bet range a lot (for value of course). I’ m particularly interested in some ranges for preflop 3betting followed by shoving missed flops, for when I’ m shortstacked.
Against 1, I'm really only 3betting KK+, and maybe even flatting with those at times in late position. Against 3, it's likely something like TT+, AQs+, AKo. We can start to open it up a bit against 4 and 3bet 99+, ATs+, KQs, and AQo+. ATs and KQs might look a little out of place, but these have some good fold equity against his range and for the times where he doesn't fold, we can hit flops with a lot of outs.
Against 3 is where we should be 3betting the most. I would consider 3betting a range as wide as 88+, A2s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T8s+, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AJo+, KQo. Notice I leave out low pocket pairs and a lot of unsuited broadways... those are too hard to play postflop against an aggressive opponent. Much better are the connected suited cards that we can play very aggressively when we hit a good draw. We don't even need a super-good draw to raise hard with these hands since we should have more fold equity in a 3bet pot. I'm not saying we should always 3bet with all of these hands, but if you're looking to 3bet wide, this might be a fun starting point to play around with.
Originally Posted by minSim
But wider 3betting ranges when deeper stacked is interesting as well. At least comment on missed flops than please, that’ll be the most common and hardest part, imo. The value spots more or less play themselves.
With deeper stacks, 3betting with these suited cards can get especially interesting. With our made hands and our huge draws we can often string the hand along and really get paid. With our good draws we can apply a lot of pressure on the flop to get a fold there.
Otherwise, on totally bricked flops, I'm giving up pretty easily. I would still c-bet the flop on boards that hit my range well (A-high obviously, K- and Q-high to a lesser extent) and on boards that miss opponent's range (all 3 cards 7-or-lower, various paired rainbow boards). With the SC cards I would tend to c-bet the flop if I make a low pair since: 1) that's the best chance to get value and to get to a cheap showdown vs unpaired cards; 2) we potentially fold out better pocket pairs against some opponents hoping to hit a set; and 3) when we hit our set or 2 pair it's very well-disguised against anyone who has called our flop bet. I'm not 2-barreling unless I pick up an 8-out-or-better draw on the turn. We should also be c-betting AK or AQ a decent amount of the time.
If the flop and turn both get checked, we can fire sometimes here with our hands that have no showdown value whatsoever, especially if the turn was a scare card. If we have showdown value (any decent pair and sometimes A-high), I prefer to check the turn back again a lot of times.
Originally Posted by minSim
- Playing marginal hands like Qxs/Kxo/T8o.
Um, not often. A lot of Qxs hands and hands like 87o or T8o are worth playing in a 5-way pot (as I indicated above), but otherwise they're better to dump. Marginal off-suit hands are mostly worthless, and that includes Ax and Kx. People love to limp with Ax and Kx and it's too hard for your TPNK to run into TPWK or 2 pair.
Well that's my shot. I would love for someone better than me to correct any mistakes I made, because I'm sure my advice isn't the best you'll find on FTR  . Good luck, and most of all, have fun. It's great to make money, but against your friends it's much more rewarding to enjoy yourself.
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This is how my homegame plays; gameplan?
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