Donktastic!

[Fnord]

$3/$5 NLHE $300 buy-in

Goodish but looseish reg (nearly $1k) limps
Total donator ($200) cracks a kidding around smile and raises to $15
Semi-loose/passive ($300) calls
Loose, aggressive with small money, passive with big money ($500) calls.
SB is a loose/passive donator ($500)
BB is tight/passive
You are the probably the tightest player at the table.

You have around $400, and the button.

What's your play?

[littleogre]

well i don't play live but i don't think you can just call. You are gonna hate all non set making flops. So the decesion is raise or fold. I would raise the pot f i am counting right has around 50 bucks in it so i would bet around 90-110

[Fnord]

Why so much?

[Erpel]

If I call it'll be at least 4 way, and possibly 6 way if SB and UTG both call (and noone re-raises). 99 doesn't play for showdown value in a 4-6way pot imo, but I could see it play for set value.

I could re-raise to try to isolate or steal the pot right there. There's already $53 in the pot and the current bet is $15 so I guess the bet size for this move is around $80-90. If this would work would depend on exactly how loose people are. I would imagine UTG and CO at least would fold to a re-raise and probably the MP semi-loose/passive also. That said, I don't necessarily want to play 99 in a big pot when it might still very well go 3+way. And I'm poor enough at putting people on ranges that I wouldn't know what they would call the initial raise and the 3-bet with both.

I wouldn't fold in this situation pre-flop.

I would call for set value only, and possibly fold if SB or especially BB decides to re-raise pre-flop a big amount. A small amount I likely still get good implied odds for and that I would call.

If I miss my set I would be looking to check/fold, even if I have an overpair to the board.
If I hit my set lots of things could still go wrong. I'd have to consider carefully which straight and flush draws are possible. If I don't find reason to think that I have a second best hand I would try to extract value on every street.

Edit note: I meant to suggest extracting value while also giving drawing hands poor odds - although it's hard to give poor odds if more people continue in the hand. I guess I see myself almost overbetting the pot to fold out drawing hands - causing top pair type hands to maybe also fold.

Maybe fold pre-flop is the way, as even a made set will either bet high enough to fold everyone out or low enough that drawing hands are priced in.

In closing - I really don't know. I'm still favouring call for set value only. I'll maybe chew some numbers when home from work.

[Fnord]

$58 in the pot, although even if we don't see a flop there is a $1 drop and I'll probably throw a buck to the dealer...

Folding here would be really silly and worrying about getting money in bad with a set as silly as 99 has good set over set and boat over boat value in addition to the money not being really deep and the pot already juiced.

[Da GOAT]

isnt this such a standard call??

[Erpel]

isnt this such a standard call??

Don't give it all away at once - he's giving us beginners homework. We rather like our homework here. Do feel free to submit other 'standard' situations for beginners to get wrong!

My comments regarding folding was based on the notion that if it's hard to extract value from a flopped set (?) that would reduce our effective implied odds pre-flop. Even if true (and it might not be), that is probably outweighed by the potential ability to take down a $500+ pot in other situations though. Sets are good.

And yeah, $58 - forgot to add in the UTG limper.

On raise or call. I don't see enough folds here reliably to make raise my preferred option - and if a raise from me is called I'd worry about being behind. I'd still go with call for set value only.

[Reidak]

The real question being posed here by fnord is given through his description of the table and the thread name - donktastic. We want to maximize our expectation from bad players.

Goodish but looseish reg (nearly $1k) limps
Total donator ($200) cracks a kidding around smile and raises to $15
Semi-loose/passive ($300) calls
Loose, aggressive with small money, passive with big money ($500) calls.
SB is a loose/passive donator ($500)
BB is tight/passive
You are the probably the tightest player at the table.

You have around $400, 99 and the button.

Loose reg will limp a very wide range of hands, donator bumps it up too small to $15 ($20, maybe more given tables looseness, but maybe his hand is weak) L/P call, and agressive with small money/passive big money calls. We want to play againts passive players, not agressive ones. On the button we have position, and the blinds are both passive.

bump it to $80 ish, expect folds to the donator who may call or shove (call the shove ldo) the raise should also push out the following two players. Coupled with our tight table image, we don't need to be playing for set value. there is a decent amount of money to be scooped, couple that with the fact the players are so passive it will be hard to maximize a set if we smooth call.

[deacon_bluez]

I would just call, but there is a case for raising too. You have position and when (if) you go to flop you can have more options depending on the pf action. Also, I suspect set-camping is not as profitable at higher stakes, but at micro it certainly seems to be, so that suggests a call would be good.

Fnord, I hope you're planning to do this Harrington style: take us to the flop and continue through the hand.

[Fnord]

I raised to $60 which I think is the right number for Aces as well.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I raised to $60 which I think is the right number for Aces as well.

Damn Fnord you read my mind. $60 is perfect. That way the donator thinks he can repop to $200 over you with shit and think he has fold equity, and you just isolated a nice sized pot.

[Fnord]

That way the donator thinks he can repop to $200 over you with shit and think he has fold equity, and you just isolated a nice sized pot.

If he shoves, I don't think it's a snap call and I certainly am not pumping my fist (more like "Are we flipping? GAMB000000000000L!!!!!!") Would have to look at body language and such (can't do that over the internets) as I think it's pretty close. Although I really should have given a more detailed read. This guy figures to go bust within the next 10 orbits are so as he's leaking away money pretty fast (this is his second buy-in.) I don't think he's in Kamakazee mode yet, he still wants to pay to hit miracle flops and build pots that would be fun to win.

In a recent 2+2 post an online player mentioned that they don't use tells in live games, I think this is a perfect example of a practical "tell." I got a pretty good read on his approach to the game and a context under which to understand why he's playing this hand this way. The bet sizing and "just goofing" body lanague all fit. I don't think he's trying to be deceptive, but if he shoves I might have to re-consider.

[Fnord]

For the results-oriented, everyone folded. All the more reason I needed to raise here to build up some mistrust.

Anyone want to talk bet sizing?

[pantherhound]

what does the semi loose passive and the other caller think of the donator? how are they and the donator in particular reacting to 3bets? are they capable of cold calling the donator's raise with top 10 hands?

if they'll be cold calling a big range as expected its obv all about the donator and we'll play a flop in position if he just calls getting it in on a lot of flops but it's kind of awkward and close.

[Fnord]

are they capable of cold calling the donator's raise with top 10 hands?

Yes, but there is soooo much offsuit trash in their range if they flat call AA/KK and trap $60 from me, then good for them.