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 Crossed Wires
Guys,
Thx for the responses and apologies to Bigslikk - not because I feel he is right in what he said and I was wrong but because his response was genuinely warranted due to the impression he got from my post. In fact, most of you have got the same impression. Ergo, though I find it hard to believe, I did not communicate myself very well.
Once again, apologies.
The main thing you all seem to have gotten is that I was complaining about bad beats - but I wasn't! That was the quintessential aspect of my entire thread!
Let me address one by one. This will be long so just skip to your name for ease of reading 
Most will be addressed to Biondino as he wrote the most in reply.
1) Biondino
Without going into past posts that I can't remember, I can honestly tell you that there was no tilt in the examples provided. Remember, I dropped £20 ($40) just for some MTT fun on a Friday night. This money was meaningless, as were the stakes I was playing at.
The examples given of where I was beaten and I count as bad beats did not go into detail as I am trying to get my post length down. And to be honest, I also didn't think I'd have to go into detail to explain why they were harsh. But when all were done on the river, where most had called the all in before they made their hand and included calling pre flop betting with hands that were so weak as to be laughable, then I do count as a bad beat, or at the least, unlucky.
For example with the nut flush beaten by a full house, the guy holding 33 called a pre flop raise and a reraise. He was the last to act each time and there were still 4 people in the pot.
The flop came bearing flush draws and major overcards, more betting and raising and still he called with just a lowly pair of 3s. The turn came pairing kings and more furious betting. He still called. Can you honestly say you'd think your 3s were good in this situation? Finally, the river came with a 3 and he made his full house. I didn't see that coming. I certainly couldn't legislate for anyone holding pocket 3s and even if I did know his cards, down to just 4 outs to make the boat, is slim.
With the straight beaten by the flush, the guy called an all in with just 3 to the draw. His starting hand was 62 and the flop brought QKJ.He caught runner runners.
And with the gutshot beating top 2 pair twice, each time the villains needed a 6, which duly came on the river. Again, just 4 outs and had committed himself way before that.
Now, perhaps I am wrong, but to me, getting your chips in when miles ahead, and being called by a wing and a prayer is harsh. Not the baddest of beats I've experienced (that was when I had quad 4s beaten by quad 10s) but still bad.
of course, there is statisitcal chance that they could win, but that is obvious, but being beaten when you're over 90% to win with just one card to come, that chance is still minor.
As for my state of mind you say: "but you say things like: it's a minefield where the best play and best hands don't win as often as they should."
No I didn't. I said that I could say that - if I was so inclinded to feel sorry for myself and wallow in tilt and self pity. And I could blame luck, rigging or what have you for my misfortune. I could - but I don't - because I truly don't believe this and am not bothered by the beats. They are a part of the game. I got my chips in when way ahead yet accept that poker can still throw up that 1 outer to beat you despite the overwhelming odds of you winning.
The point is, my post was to illustrate that I am looking at the big picture and that in the long run, my hands will hold up. If I am a 90% favourite then overtime I will win 90%. Simple.
Thunder wrote: "Most of all, I can point out that my hands are no longer holding up and the beats are becoming the norm".
No. Good hands DO win as often as they should, and bad beats AREN'T becoming the norm. You can't have it both ways: either you accept and understand, as you claim, that bad beats are a fact of life:
That's just it - II don't want it both ways. Again, in this example you cited, I actually stated that I could moan and whine that bad beats are the norm and that I could take the easy way out and blame everyone under the sun. But that is just it, I am not doing so because I truly do accept that even a one outer can triumph and I truly do understand that the best hands WILL hold up over time. There is no small picture thinking of "I've been bad beaten in the past 5 games - the world is against me" because I may go on and win the next 50.....and suck out in 20 of them!
And it also shows that bad beats proves you made the right play - but just got unlucky. And that these are the guys you want to be playing week in, week out.
Thunder wrote; "then this is what it's about. If it's variance then a few days is going to be nothing in the grand scheme of things when you can run bad for weeks and even months."
or, you adhere to a belief that you're fundamentally unlucky, or poker is rigged, or some other illogical, unmathematical excuse. You can't have it both ways! "
And once again, I don't want it both ways. This very statement of mine, which you've mistaken, was meant as a clear indication that variance is real, that bad beats do occur and that for anyone wanting to get serious about poker, they have to be prepared for long periods of bad luck. My point here was if you're gonna bitch over 3 days of bad beats then you have no right to countenance ideas of turning professional or even semi pro - because these guys can, and do, run cold for much longer than a few days.
I was making the point that you have to be prepared for long streaks where it seems you can't win in an empty room - and that you must have the finance behind you to support you when that occurs. Again, it was to show the big picture and to show that that is where I am at - hence no worry or tilt.
And that is significant because in my early posts - as Chopper and Ash noted at the time - I was displaying only short term thinking.
It is indeed cathartic writing about all this - some people think writing about bad beats is a bad thing, but I agree that it can simply help to get the momentary annoyance of your chest. What it DOESN'T excuse is claiming that "bad beats are becoming the norm".
The catharsis was not from getting anything off my chest but in being able to put it all in perspective. When I opened my post with "you all know this already" it was meant that you all know what I am going to discuss: variance, bad beats are a way of life, you must have the big picture in mind etc.
The purifying came from "getting it" and from not tilting or feeling the site is rigged, from not getting emotional or castigating the poker gods and then kicking the cat. The big picture was there and it pleased me to ackowledge it. So when I was having that run of hands being beaten on the river, by hands that shouldn't even be there, and that went all in with nothing concrete and chance against them, the realisation that I wasn't fazed and that I had moved up a level in the way I approach the game was overwhelmingly positive.
Thunder wrote:
"I can complain how this "all in on a draw" mentality is typical of $2 stakes"
This is the wrong way round. All in on a draw is a very strong, worthwhile tactic you will find at all levels. Or are you just talking about people who call with draws, rather than pushing all in themselves? It's frustrating when they lose but are you really complaining about a situation where you stack someone two times out of three? You should holler in wild delight when a donk calls off his stack with a draw!
I know it's the wrong way round - and I thought I made that clear in my thread. I know it's wrong - and that is why I am not doing it! It's all to show that I've developed and am thinking the right way round. Ie: I could think that if I wanted to, and blame the stakes level, but I know it's not true so I won't. This entire post was not to preach to the converted but 1) to show I am growing and 2) to be useful to any more noobies who may be suffering from 'Small Picture, I'm Losing And It's Not My Fault' syndrome.
Yes, I am talking about the guy calling me on just a draw and yes I know I will be stacking up 2/3 times. That is why there was no tilt and that is why I was so pleased to just be able to dispassionately fire up another SNG.......because I know he got very lucky and that in the long run, I take his chips.
Thunder wrote: " it is my aim not to whine to anyone about bad beats."
I think this is wise - it'll help your game and ensure you focus on areas in which you can improve. Another thing which will help you focus is not getting so enraged when people make ill-judged or inaccurate comments in reply to your posts - it'll just add to the victim mentality you're in danger of creating for yourself. As soon as you blame your troubles on others, you won't be able to see when the problems originate with you.
Again, I thought this was pretty clear. If I am not wanting to whine then why would I do so here? I was trying to point out that whining is not on my agenda and that this post is anything but a rant.
As for getting enraged at others, out of 100+ posts, I believe this is rare. In fact, I can only recall firing back at two people. You were one, in the MTT section, and even that was not done in rage but just simple and calm matter of fact. I admit I was angry in my reply to Bigslikk because as he was so off the mark with what I had written, and took it all the wrong way, I believed he was making asinine and dismissive remarks without valid reason. And that got me uber angry.
2) Bigslikk
Hopefully, if you have read the above, then it should be clear why I reacted the way I did and thought that you were being exceptionally argumentative and patronising.
The section that you quoted is as clear as day to me and I can't see how you took it any other way. But you did, as did others so I cannot do anything but apologise and re explain. Basically that example illustrated that I am thinking of the big and not the small picture and that to be serious and profitable, BR adherence will be essential - even if it means dropping down a level. I am not giving in to the short term mentality of playing at bigger stakes for instant rewards.
That section was me saying that "I could do that - and it is tempting - but it is wrong".
Again, this to me is obvious in the section you quoted: and that if I can't stick to BR now when it's just for fun, then how can I when I am being more serious?
And yes, you are right not to worry about things out of my control - and that was the entire point which has been lost in me posting. I was explaining how I have that self control and how anyone else who enters this forum after me, is going to need the same.
I mean, why would I assume noobies would get any benefit from a poor loser whining? I mentioned, at the start, that noobs may get benefit because it was the complete opposite of feeling sorry for myself and short term thinking.
Anyone who posts here with any kind of regularity at all knows that bad luck / negative variance / "kid-with-magnifying-glass God altering probability to end their dreams of appearing at the WPT final table in Aruba" threads spring up multiple times a day, and are tired of responding
And this is why I am stunned that you all thought I was doing the same. My entire post and point was the complete reverse of this. It was to say I could be narrow minded and go down that line of thinking but it's not useful, it's not even true and it's not healthy for any long term future in poker. My aim was to explain this to other noobies and to illustrate how I have transcended such blinkerdness.
And that is why I reacted the way I did when you replied because you were going down the route I thought I had made pertinently clear was the opposite of what I was doing.
The plain truth about bad beats is this: everybody gets their fair share, and they suck. That's all. Tilting will cause you to play terrible, and out of your roll. I cannot think of two worse consequences that prevent a player from making money.
And once again, I made this very allusion in my thread and is why I just fired up another SNG - devoid of tilt and within the confines of my roll instead of signing up to the more tempting $5 and $10 SNGS I usually play.
I am honestly astounded that my OP was taken so wildly off tangent but it was so it must (unbelievable as it is) be down to my communication. Anyway, hopefully it' all sorted now.
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Originally Posted by Thunder
