Donking my Money Away

[nUFamn]

The last few days have been hell whenever I go into a ring game. I think the majority of it is variance, and I will be scanning my PT to find some HH to throw up later on (but I'm getting ready to run to class now). It just seems like any overpair I get, someone's got a bigger one. Any time I get Aces, someone will call my large PFR in order to try to catch a straight, then I'll think "No, they wouldn't call with 5s6s a 4xBB pfr", push with Aces on the 478r board, and get stacked by the straight (only happened once, but i've lost with overpairs a couple of times).

Granted, without HH's it's hard to say for sure, but do these situations sound like I'm making mistakes or just getting screwed by variance? If it's variance, then I'll just have to weather it, but if it seems like I might be making poor decisions I REALLY need to find HH describing what's been going on.

I've dropped about half my bankroll now, and have money to put more in but I really would rather buckle down and weather the storm than do that, so I suppose I need to avoid 10NL all together and stick to SnGs. *sigh*

[spoonitnow]

Just move down? What stakes are you playing, btw?

Shit hit the send button accidentally.

For what it's worth, I had two big downswings when I started back playing earlier this year. One was for 8 buyins and the other was for 10.

They were both at 10nl.

The closest I've come to that post-10nl is like 3.5. It really sucks but if you've lost half your bankroll you need to move down and rebuild.

[nUFamn]

Well, I've got a small bankroll to start with, and I'm playing 10NL right now. I played a bit of 2nl at UB earlier, but that's almost harder because it's even more of a cluster$#@% at 2nl. I've got around $100 between the two accounts now, and I'm thinking I might try to boost it by playing $2 SnG's. Or, I could just read up, take a couple days off to get my head totally straight, and then take another shot at 10NL under-rolled.

I played breakeven 25NL at UB for a while, but I'm way under-rolled for that right now.

[dev]

Taking shots with <10 buy-ins is just bad BR management.

If you can beat the lower games, continue to beat them until you can roll yourself for the bigger ones. If you must mix it up, play a different type of game within your roll. Play a tourney, SNG, or a different form of poker.

[martindcx1e]

If you only have $100 left I would move it over to Stars and play $5NL.

[daven]

read the bankroll management links and articles here. Then stop playing with only ten buy-ins, drop a level and cash-in, then move back up.

You say that the lower limit is even crazier?!? if you can't beat $2NL you should probably figure out why before hitting $10NL.

Also, some comments with the example you gave. As well as 56s, you'll find yourself up against 44, 77, 88 often enough here to be a little careful, maybe 3/4 pot-bet the flop rather than slam all-in. Then fold if you get re-raised. Not sure what exactly you stand to gain by pushing this flop, but you deserve to get stacked - risking $10 to win 80cents without holding the absolute dogs bollocks seems a little silly to me... And just to completely clarify, you didn't call villain's all-in here did you?

[daven]

I just re-read what I wrote, hope that didn't come across too harsh! post some hand histories and get some feedback is my other advice, there are people here with a vast amount of knowledge. I've been tapping into their brains recently and it's helping me loads. Good luck!

[Jack Sawyer]

$2NL is gambooooool!
Nobody can beat that level.


Heck, when I'm tilted, I go to 2NL and gambooooooooool!

With only $100, I;d say play $5SnG's until you triple that up.
Then play 10NL until you double up.
Then play 20NL until you double up.

You get the picture.

[nUFamn]

No, lol, not harsh... and if anything can be interpreted as harsh, it's probably good that it is. I need to be smacked and told to quit donking my money away... I'm a better player than I've been playing lately, just being stupid. I'm taking a few days off to regain composure and then take a stab at lots of SnGs.

But yea from my experience, Jack's right about 2NL... I'm sure that given enough time, playing good ABC poker would dominate it, but I always feel weird playing it, because I'm used to playing tournys, 5/10 online, or 10/20 live... so its just way-lower stakes than I'm used to. Anyways, thanks for the tips!

[Marv1105]

bump

[martindcx1e]

bump

lol

[kmind]

bump

lol

I literally loled too. One of the best bumps ever.

[nickthefool]

2NL on stars is definitely beatable - i donked off most of my roll earlier this year and had to grind out at that level and had a pretty good win rate. Once you adjust to how people play then it was pretty profitable, considering the stakes.

[daven]

if $2NL on stars is anything like $5NL on party, then it is infinitely beatable. Stacks just searching for a good home... and orphan pots all over the place. Bet sizing, pot odds and the ability to laydown should be all you need.

[Pelion]

2NL is definatly beatable. You should be able to beat it for AT LEAST 8-10BB/100 just by learning when to fold and getting the money in otherwise. It certainly takes some practice/ study to be able to beat that level but then it does at all levels. Some of the posts in this thread have come dangerously close to suggesting that low stakes are easier than higher stakes which as will all know is rediculous...

[Percival]

Here are a couple of tips to help you though this tough time...

1. When you are at a ring game, buy in for 25% - 35% of the max buy in. At a $10 max, buy in for anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50. Until you understand, and can take advantage of deep stack play, all you are doing is risking more by buying in at higher amounts. This won't keep your aces from getting busted, but will force you to play better hands pre-flop.

2. Get away from ring games, and stick with sng's. You gain more experience with less risk this way. Plus at the lower levels, sng's are easy. Play only premium hands until the blinds reach 100 or more, then play aggressively.

Here's why sng's over ring at lower levels. Let's look at your busted aces. In a ring game half the table or more may be donks that won't fold to a 4xbb PFR. When your donk busts you with a 4 7, momentum starts building. Half of the table is encouraged by this, and will start playing the same hands, the other half will see fish, and begin calling to win a big pot. Of course you can make your PFR's even bigger, but then you win more blinds and less pots which isn't profitable. In a sng, those donks will go out and be gone, with no more donks taking their places.

Hope this helps!

[martindcx1e]

1. When you are at a ring game, buy in for 25% - 35% of the max buy in. At a $10 max, buy in for anywhere from $2.50 to $3.50. Until you understand, and can take advantage of deep stack play, all you are doing is risking more by buying in at higher amounts.

You can't learn the right way to play with 100bb's if you don't attempt it...

When your donk busts you with a 4 7, momentum starts building. Half of the table is encouraged by this, and will start playing the same hands, the other half will see fish, and begin calling to win a big pot.

sorry but this doesn't happen.

[daven]

interesting thoughts percival. Suffice to say they sound crack-induced...
anyway, my add to the mix.

Buying in short - to a point. If you're not totally comfortable or rolled for the stakes then I suggest buying in with 65-70% (i.e. $3.50ish for $5NL). Less than this you can't play real poker - 70% gives you enough room to actually do so (just)

As for the theory about about exponential-crazy-play-growth. Well, I've never seen it - but even if it happened, that would be a good thing for a solid player!