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I agree an overbet is a good play in this situation. If the villain completely missed the flop it is unlikely that you will be making much more from him even if he hits something on later streets. So we may as well get the pot bloated now, hope the overbet confuses him or that he caught enough of the flop to call us down and play a big pot with us.
I like to divide the effective stacks by 6 and get that amount in on the flop. This makes the pot so big that we can bet more reasonable amounts on the turn and river but by this stage we are still all in.
e.g.
flop: both stacks at $90, pot is $9.
we bet $15, villain calls $15
turn: pot is now $39 stacks are $75
we bet $25, villain calls
river: pot is now $89 stacks are $50
we push all in.
If we can get the villain to do some of the betting for us all the better, in the above situation at the flop I like a bet of $5 against an aggresive player who hopefully will raise this "c-bet" to $15 for us... i'ld bet $8 if he habitually minraises.
Nice post! I personally don't really use overbets much at all, but i am sure this would make stacking weak players much easier! The division by 6 is a really useful tip also.
Moving on from the above (apologies if this hijacks the thread) I would like to consider this situation with regard to deception. Something that just occurred to me this morning is that if we are using the play outlined above against observant thinking players then we must also sometimes overbet flops for deception. (I am talking specifically about leading out for an overbet, not reraising light). What do you guys think about this? I would like to know if people think it is better to do this if we completely miss the pot or if we do it when we caught a small piece of it? Also how important is flop texture?
Well, i don't think i would overbet the flop like this against observant opponents or without a real hand, since i don't think playing any number of big pots OOP is worth any deception we gain for our bets with monster hands. This is because sometimes our "monster" may only be top two pair/set, and when the turn brings the 4th card for a straight or the 3rd card for a flush, we may very well be WB since we don't know if they called the flop bet with a draw anticipating high implied odds due to the fact that we overbet the flop.
---Plus, i think they could steal this pot away (from me at least) if they figured we had a strong hand on the flop and are now worried about the turn card. ---
IP seems more +EV to use this play. Specifically, i would begin to use draws in this spot for deception. For example, i have [9c 8c] and call a preflop raise IP. Both of us are 100xBB deep.
***FLOP***
[7h 10c 4s]
He leads into me, and there i think an overbet would be quite good. First of all, when he has A-Qo in that spot, he has to fold. Second, lets say he decides to call with something like TP or a small overpair. He checks the turn to us, and now we get a free look at the river. Finally, when he has K-K+ and decides to shove, we can call and be something like 40/60 which isn't terrible. But, the good thing would be when we overbet the flop with 10-10 and he shoves with K-K+, and now we are 90/10.
In my opinion, i think overbetting OOP should only be used when you have the goods/against a weak unobservant player. IP this play gains more value since you get to use it to get free turn cards and take down more pots on the flop. I know this is the same as raising draws on the flop IP and that it gains the same sort of value for when you play sets like that, but by overbetting it is a lot easier to get all the money in on the flop when you are 90/10.
EDIT: I missed the "i am talking specifically about leading out, not reraising light part" when i responded to your second paragraph. lol, sorry. I guess i just in general wouldn't use the overbet play unless i was IP or against a weak unobservant player. IP against a smart thinking player, the hands i would overbet for deception would definitely have to include at least one overcard to the board.
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On Overbets: More than Just Fake Bluffs
and open the pot from a MP with 4xBB (standard at your table).
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Originally Posted by Carroters
