Play easy games and win money or harder games and improve?

[pokerroomace]

I play at pokerroom and I'm quite sure that the level of play at some other sites is much stronger than at pokerroom. For example, the play at Full Tilt is much stronger. And although I've never played at Stars - it has a reputation for being quite tough.
I live in the UK and so can play on all the poker sites.

When I 1st started playing poker - I was told that it is better to play at the easy games where you can win lots of money rather than play at harder games and improve your game more.

But I feel like players at Stars and Full Tilt are much stronger than me and if I were to play there I would probably lose.

What do you think?

[Da GOAT]

mike caro said;

i shoulda won loads from fish rather than gain respect from better players

[Warpe]

Work on table selection more on the tougher sites. The fish are there, they're just harder to find.

[larsmars]

Legendary Rosenborg coach Nils Arne Eggen said:

"No team ever got better by losing their matches"

[donkbee]

mike caro said;

i shoulda won loads from fish rather than gain respect from better players

qft qft qft qft

[jyms]

You will get better by playing $200NL but you can't play without $4K in your bankroll. Get the cash. Playing tougher players than you can beat costs money, you have the money to lose??

[swiggidy]

What do you think?

I would still be at poker room if I wasn't in the U.S. Actually I might not be because I would be over-rolled for 100NL. Like Miffed's infamous BR thread, don't worry about playing better than ABC poker until 100NL. You want to build a roll as fast as possible. So 15BB/100 @ 25NL (me @ PR) >> 5BB/100 @ 50NL (me @ PS).

To summarize: I am a better player and I'm still making less money. Sound like a good deal?

[Rondavu]

I've come to know that hands under your belt can be just as valuable as experience against better players.

All games are relatively beatable for X rate. It's just how you adjust. Playing more hands gives you experience that leads to faster adjustments. Just make money man. Play the better players when and if you have to.

[Halv]

Aok said something like "If I could play 2nd graders with 200$ rolls I would".

[swiggidy]

Aok said something like "If I could play 2nd graders with 200$ rolls I would".

So you're saying higher stakes?

[Halv]

"If I could play 2nd graders with x$ rolls I would". Not related to stakes but to game profitability. If you can have a higher $/hr playing xNL vs weak opponents than playing yNL vs strong opponents, then play xNL. If you earn more playing yNL then play yNL. IMHO the only measurement as to improving one's game is if you make more pretty monies.

This is assuming you have the bankroll for both games. Playing out of your roll is a shortcut to Busto, but that's a different thread.

BTW I've taken my own advice and stopped playing FTP.

[jyms]

BTW I've taken my own advice and stopped playing FTP.

How many others can we convince. FTP is a roll killer. You can find much easier money. One thing good about it, after playing Break even at FTP's $25NL tables, Absolutes $50NL's are a cakewalk.

[XTR1000]

i pulled my money out of FTP too. now that pt is working there i went back to everest, finally i see ppl stacking off with TPGK again.


edit:

theres one thing with FTP, that i dont understand. they have one of the largest player bases online, up to 35k players and more at peak times and the competition is one of the hardest. if most players there were above average, why dont they increase their winrate by migrating to other sites?

if, on the other hand, the playerbase is so large, because there r lots of players wanting to pass some time and play for fun, why are the games there that tough?

[miw210]

What's wrong with making money? Playing with people worse than you will always be how to get the cha-ching.

What limits are you playing? As long as you're not NL10 or something, I'd stick to the fishies. If you're aiming for a WSOP bracelet or something, though, it'd be a different story.

Money > Respect (in poker) IMO

[Warpe]

i pulled my money out of FTP too. now that pt is working there i went back to everest, finally i see ppl stacking off with TPGK again.


edit:

theres one thing with FTP, that i dont understand. they have one of the largest player bases online, up to 35k players and more at peak times and the competition is one of the hardest. if most players there were above average, why dont they increase their winrate by migrating to other sites?

if, on the other hand, the playerbase is so large, because there r lots of players wanting to pass some time and play for fun, why are the games there that tough?

The player base may be large but, just like any other site, once you distribute that over all the stakes and tables the field gets winnowed down to the point where you're bumping into regulars a lot. One nice thing about FT is that you can datamine...so fire up PT/PAHUD, open up as many tables as you can and go do something else for an hour. When you come back, you'll instantly know what tables you want to be sitting at and which ones to avoid. Table selection is key on FT.

[Miffed22001]

fwiw, my lifetime hands on FT is 0.
My lifetime hands on stars is <40k.

My lifetime hands total is >750k.

Br > skill. Only when your good games dry up do you need to actually get some skillz etc.

[zook]

I like FT. I'm a solid winner there (at 100NL and 200NL full-ring) and I think the ease of table/seat selection is a huge reason.

[Chopper]

i have had opposite results.

pokerroom sucked. absolute sucked. stars was/is very fishy (i have won here like i did at old party). and ftp is not too bad, either.

where i get hurt the most...ub. i have no idea why, they cannot be tougher than ftp.

maybe just prefer abc tag poker, but absolute and pokerroom were so rocky, i couldnt beat them long enough to clear the bonuses. by beat, i mean over 5 bb/100. less than that, and its not entertaining at 25 or 50 NL.

[XTR1000]

is this worth to be considered at 50nl?

But now I am focusing only on long-term profitability and the qualities that will help you to increase it. Some actions can reduce your short-term profits but increase your long-term ones. For example, playing in tough games will cut your immediate profits and could even cause losses. However, the experience may develop skills and other qualities you need to move up and make even more money.

taken from http://www.twoplustwo.com/magazine/c...maker0207.html

[Chopper]

excerpt from XTR's link...

They work harder, study longer, remain more alert, act more deceptively, avoid games they can’t beat, attack more ruthlessly, criticize themselves more harshly, refuse to yield to their emotions, and always insist on having an edge. They make these and many other sacrifices that most people just aren’t willing make. In fact, they are so committed to winning that they may feel that they are not sacrificing anything important. Everything but winning is hardly worth thinking about.

sounds a lot like success in ANY field...sports athletes, businessmen, etc.

good metaphor.

most people miss opportunity for success because it introduces itself dressed in overalls and looks like hard work.

[Halv]

most people miss opportunity for success because it introduces itself dressed in overalls and is hard work.

I felt like I had to fix this part of your post.

[pokerroomace]

good replies. you've inspired me to play better now.

and as for fulltilt, it is the hardest game i've come across so far. i haven't played at stars. but i've played at pokerroom, paradise poker, party (since the ban) and probably a few more i can't think of ATM.

i always seem to do well at the start. depositing 100 or so. getting to 250 and then losing it all. i think i've done that twice so far. atm. i'm on 200 after depositing 100 and everything is looking good. i hope i don't tilt and lose it all again (i have a strong feeling that won't happen though). to win at FTP requires all my attention and if i lose concentration for a bit i do start to lose there.

the reason i do play at FT sometimes is that i can use the Mac equivalent of PT or PO called MacPoker Pro and it works like a dream with FT. And with PR, MacPoker Pro is a massive headache.

I still think I have a bigger edge at PR though

[swiggidy]

So you're playing 50NL or 100NL on a $100 BR? That's terrible, horribly bad unless you want to keep depositing every week. BR management is more important than the toughness of the game or the stakes (as long as you're rolled for said stakes).

Read the bankroll management thread in the beginners digest sticky.

[pokerroomace]

So you're playing 50NL or 100NL on a $100 BR? That's terrible, horribly bad unless you want to keep depositing every week. BR management is more important than the toughness of the game or the stakes (as long as you're rolled for said stakes).

Read the bankroll management thread in the beginners digest sticky.

I have $1700 in my online account and a few hundred dollars offline. So I am rolled for $100NL. But I'm going to keep playing $50NL until I reach $2k online

[bigspenda73]

Every site you play will have tougher opponents. Finding the site that has the truest "donators" is most important.

You can still find tough situations in easy games which will in turn prepare you for higher levels.

[thnwkd]

you live in UK? why are'nt you playing on Party Poker... do you hate money!

but seriously there's no reason you can't do both... play at the soft sites most of the time to build and play a few sessions each week on the tougher sites... though i honestly don't see why you would do a stupid thing like that

[salsa4ever]

think back to a year ago and how much harder the games are on all sites at all levels. Yeah there's still fish but fewer.

We've had the legislation and the wholesale changes. The shutdown of Neteller. Who knows what the enviornment will look like in another year's time. Make hay while the sun shines and play the easiest games you can find. You don't have to look for the tougher games. The way things are going, the tough games will find YOU

[pokerroomace]

you live in UK? why are'nt you playing on Party Poker... do you hate money!

but seriously there's no reason you can't do both... play at the soft sites most of the time to build and play a few sessions each week on the tougher sites... though i honestly don't see why you would do a stupid thing like that

pokerroom is quite easy imo. i did play party for a bit but switched back to PR because i couldn't play tournies on the mac version of party.
i'm comfortable at PR and doing well so i'm not going to change anytime soon

[djzcko]

Table and site selection is a skill. Master it and your bankroll will thank you. Go to where you can make the most $. Who cares who you beat in the process?

Depending on your style of play, individual sites may be more difficult to one person than another. Personally, PR was a donkfest, FT was above average, Party was a donkfest, Stars was average and Absolute is where I am at now. Haven't played enough hands to get a good sample, but Absolute seems average at best. Don't go to Absolute if you want FR tables though....for some mysterious reason, nobody plays FR there.

[thnwkd]

Are you kidding me?
Play easy games to win money and study to improve!