Is it always right to call w/KK?

[sykotik489]

I play 1/2 NL live far more than any other game.

Recently, 2 hands have made me consider folding KK preflop.

Hand 1.

MP, raise in front of me to 12, I pop it to 40, he raises to 80.

Here, I'm 90% sure he has AA (player is tight, and mostly passive).

I call, flop all unders, he's all in, I call and I was right. Cheap lesson since he only had about 30 after the preflop action.

Hand 2.

I'm UTG, raise to 12 UTG +1 calls, UTG+2 is all in for $107 total.

Here, my instincts say AA again, but I'm much less sure, since I think JJ, QQ make this play to shut out AK. I call AND UTG+1 calls.

Again he had AA. (irrelevant side note: I spiked a K on that one)

So, at 1/2 should I start laying down KK to save money when I'm reasonably sure my opponent has AA, or is it +EV to call due to a lot of bad play at lower stakes?

[zenbitz]

Hand 1 you could maybe fold to the 4-bet preflop. If you call pre-flop you are calling any flop, too.

Hand 2, I think given the chance that he is squeezing with the UTG+1 caller, this is probably a call. Exception might be if your UTG raise is VERY tight (QQ+/AK), and villians know enough to pay attention. Still, I probably call.

[miw210]

Re your title, it's not correct to say its always right to call preflop with KK. It's a hard fold, but when your gut is telling you you're coming up with aces, you gotta go with it.

I agree with zenbitz with both points.

In Hand 1, you say you're 90% sure villain is holding aces but you still call the 4-bet? Trust your reads.

Hand 2 is probably a call. You're probably ahead of villains' ranges enough.

[andy-akb]

You really shouldnt be folding KK for 50bbs. In the first hand push you cant call and just leave him $30 behind, in the second call. When you start getting deeper than 100BB and have solid reads other than gut feelings it is a little more interesting. In spots like this though it is a leak to fold.

[Chopper]

better off, imo, to raise pf...if RRed, just call and evaluate the flop. if you RR his RR, you get raised again (shoved) and you know your beat, but you are committed at that point.

if you are raised pf, and YOU RR w/ KK, then get RRed back, you still only call, dont push b/c you will get called.

when you face serious aggression pf w/ KK in your hand, send your message, and close the action if villain wants to keep going.

however, dont lay it down pf, unless you are 110% sure its AA. if you are only 105% sure, call it off, and hope to stack him when the K hits the flop (you get AK's stack here, too).

you lay down KK pf more than .5% of the time and you leave a ton of value on the table, imo.

notice i am saying pf only, not post flop. there are lots of times to lay down KK post flop, obviously.

[pokerroomace]

i don't think you should lay down either hand. but it really depends how well you know your opponent. if you play loads and loads and loads with an opponent and know that the only possible hand he could have is AA then you need to fold. but i don't think you can fold in any other cases.

in the first case you're odds are too good. there's 150 in the pot and you need to call 70 (you know you're both going allin). that's 2 to 1. no way you can fold KK to those odds.

in the second hand, because your opponent made such a big bet - i think there is no way you can fold. a hand like QQ, AK or JJ/TT make that bet to try and make players fold. doesn't he want to keep you in the hand when he has AA? most players do. so again, no way you can fold IMO