Not necessarily a new player but would like advice

[ccecil2]

Hey everyone this is my first post on FTR, i've spent some time over on other forums but i've heard good things and it seems like you all don't mind helping people who have questions that some of you might find simple or anything and some other places aren't like that. Anyway, I've been playing poker for about a year now, as i played for about a month i really enjoyed it and it has become my top hobby really, and i play on poker stars daily, try to get together a home game every month or so. I feel like I know a lot about poker from just playing online and with other people, I've also read Phil Gordon's Little Green Book, and I also have No Limit Hold Em Practice and Theory by Sklansky which I'll be starting probably today, also I know watching poker on tv won't help your game immensely but everytime its on, I'll watch it because i think that I can just pick up a few things like how some players play and stuff, High Stakes Poker, WSOP, PPT, WPT whatever is on. But, my problem is that I feel like I've been playing poker for awhile and playing it daily and I take it very seriously and I have been very successful, but I feel like I don't understand the math side at all as well as I should, like I know how to calculate pot odds but I don't really understand how to use it in my decision. But i do feel like I've gotten pretty good at just using the players I play against to help me make my decision, with tells and how they play. And I just dont want to sound like a noobie, because like I know tells arent everything. Also, I want to learn more how to know when I'm making the correct decision and more importantly why its the right decision. I'm a tight aggressive player, and at my home game we start with $10,000 chips and start with 25/50 blinds just like 20 dollar buy-ins, so if you help me with math problems please put it in terms of that, because it will be easier for me to understand. Thanks for reading all of this and I look forward to some good replies.

[XTR1000]

Hi and welcome to FTR!
pot odds theory isn´t that hard to understand. basically your just calculating if your getting the right price to draw.

say you hold
AhTh in the BB, its folded to SB who calls. SB bet 100 on the flop and you call, pot contains $300

board is
2h 8h Qc 5h

there are 46 cards left unseen, the nine remaining hearts will give you the winning flush, 9/46 or ~20% of the time. in odds format its about 4 to 1 against making your flush.

first scenario: SB bets $300, offering you to play for 600 (pot+his bet) for the price of 300, giving you 2:1 on your money. since you´re a 4:1 underdog you should fold.

second scenario: opponent bets $100 on the turn, now you´re getting 4:1 on your money and you will break even in the long run making the call.


its a quite simple example, but you´ll get the picture? if the pot offers you better odds (pot+bets/raises/calls:your call) than the odds against making your hand (cards unseen:your outs) you´ll make money in the long run et vice versa.

[MiJ]

Hi cecill i recommend you return No Limit Holdem theory and practice and buy Harrington on Holdem volume 1 , the book is much more practical than NLHE T&P and a much better read by far ....

[Warpe]

Hi cecill i recommend you return No Limit Holdem theory and practice and buy Harrington on Holdem volume 1 , the book is much more practical than NLHE T&P and a much better read by far ....

phffft...

They're both extremely valuable books.

[DubRod]

Well NLHT&P is a great book and a must read, but I think you will learn much more from these forums thand from most books. If you are more cash game specific, I dont think mastering the math is going to bring you to another level compared to actually mastering positional play,reading the table, the hands, and your opponents. Postflop play is what matters here and most of it has to do with your opponent and his range.

Hence, It might not make mathimatical sense to flop raise 3/4pot on a flush draw, but depending on your opponenent it might just be the correct play. this is just an example from the top of my head but hopefully you get my grip.

[Miffed22001]

harrington vol 1. lol. Play 10k hands and you know more than that book can ever teach you.

Small stakes holdem by Miller
Then T+P
Then sklansky for advanced players.

You can add harrington up front, but if you know starting hand requirements you know everything harrington has to tell you.

[DubRod]

Hi and welcome to FTR!
pot odds theory isn´t that hard to understand. basically your just calculating if your getting the right price to draw.

say you hold
AhTh in the BB, its folded to SB who calls. SB bet 100 on the flop and you call, pot contains $300

board is
2h 8h Qc 5h

there are 46 cards left unseen, the nine remaining hearts will give you the winning flush, 9/46 or ~20% of the time. in odds format its about 4 to 1 against making your flush.

first scenario: SB bets $300, offering you to play for 600 (pot+his bet) for the price of 300, giving you 2:1 on your money. since you´re a 4:1 underdog you should fold.

second scenario: opponent bets $100 on the turn, now you´re getting 4:1 on your money and you will break even in the long run making the call.


its a quite simple example, but you´ll get the picture? if the pot offers you better odds (pot+bets/raises/calls:your call) than the odds against making your hand (cards unseen:your outs) you´ll make money in the long run et vice versa.

This is all mathematical valuable but heres my take on it:
You raise your BB to 150 having position on OPP and having analysed his play for a few rounds. 2 things happen (SB folds/SB calls)...for discussion sake, lets say he calls

Flop comes 2h 8h Qc:
Sb probably checks since you have raised preflop or maybe puts a blocking bet if he hit the board. BB (hero) then either raises if he checks, consider calling or folding if he bets out 3/4 pot (depending on stack sizes), or reraises pot if he puts in a small blocking bet (i.e.: 1/3 pot). again for discussion sake we say he checks and you raise pot and he calls. (most common option)

Turn brings 5h:
Now here comes the fun part, Sb probably checks this turn and it is you to act. Now most people know when you bet pot you usually are trying to chase away flush draws and protect your vulnerable hand such as Aq or something like that. So what do you do here, you represent weekness as if you had Aq and really didnt like the flush draw (you either check, or bet out moderatly 1/3pot lets say). This not only disguises your hand but gives your opponent the oportunity to hang himself in the eventuality of him having a decent to moderate hand and trying to push you Off this board representing a made flush. You can also overbet the pot representing a bluff in the eventuality of you putting him on a set or something or knowing his postflop tendencies (floater, calling station etc...)

All Im trying to say is, it is mathematically wrong to bet the pot on that flop; But by being the aggressor it gives you so many more options:
1-you win by having him fold
2-you get a free card if he checks turn and you miss your flush
3-your representing a strong hand and get him off his weeker hand on turn if you miss flush(I.e: 10sQd)
4-You hit you nut flush and have a built up pot even if he folds turn
5-you hit your nut flush and get action you wouldnt have by just playing it passively.
6-You fold knowing you are beat.
7-you spike an A and might just be ahead.

BAsically, Math is one thing but true poker isnt about following strict mathematical guidelines. But rather playing your position and your opponents.