Hello, thanks and a question based on a HH

[Mert]

Firstly, I'm new to poker. A friend of mine called me about a month ago and asked if I wanted to go to a poker night at his house. Seemed like a fun idea, so I said I was in. To cut a long story short, I seem to float around the $30 mark playing $10NL games. Sometimes I lose a bit, sometimes I win a bit but I never seem to make any real headway - I always seem to run into a big beat which takes away any surplus I'd made previously. But it's okay, I'm still learning and I see it as worthwhile.

Anyway, I have to say that since finding FTR my play has improved drastically and it's refreshing to see a site where people generally seem to want to help others.

I wondered, however, by way of my introducing myself and de-lurking, if I can ask you to take a look at this HH... I think I know what I did wrong as I've looked over this several times, but I'd be interested in your take on it.

(Please accept my apologies for the formatting - I couldn't get the HH converter to work for some reason...)

$10 NL Texas Hold'em - Sunday, January 07, 11:37:50 ET 2007
Table Table 125778 (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 2: Player 1 ( $7.13 )
Seat 3: Player 2 ( $12.39 )
Seat 4: Player 3 ( $2.45 )
Seat 7: Player 4 ( $1.90 )
Seat 9: Player 5 ( $10.60 )
Seat 10: Player 6 ( $2.10 )
Seat 5: Hero ( $8.80 )
Seat 6: Player 7 ( $10 )
Seat 1: Player 8 ( $9.90 )
Seat 8: Villain ( $9.80 )

Hero posts small blind [$0.05].
Player 7 posts big blind [$0.10].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Js Qs ]
Player 4 folds
Villain calls [$0.10]
Player 5 folds
Player 6 folds
Player 8 calls [$0.10]
Player 1 folds
Player 2 calls [$0.10]
Player 3 folds
Hero calls [$0.05]
Player 7 checks

** Dealing Flop ** [ 8s, 5h, 9d ]
Hero bets [$0.20]
Player 7 folds
Villain calls [$0.20]
Player 8 calls [$0.20]
Player 2 folds

** Dealing Turn ** [ Td ]
Hero bets [$0.50]
Villain calls [$0.50]
Player 8 calls [$0.50]

** Dealing River ** [ 8h ]
Hero bets [$1.20]
Villain is all-In [$9]
Player 8 folds
Hero is all-In [$6.80]
Hero shows [ Js, Qs ]a straight Eight to Queen.
Villain shows [ 8c, 8d ]four of a kind, Eights.
Villain wins $1 from side pot #1 with four of a kind, Eights.
Villain wins $17.70 from the main pot with four of a kind, Eights.

[taipan168]

Hi and welcome to FTR, it's good to have you here, thanks for delurking!

I am a crap cash game player so hopefully somebody else will respond, but I would not have bet the flop with four opps seeing the flop. You have nothing but two overcards, a gutshot straight draw and a backdoor flush draw, I would check and see what the other players do.

On the turn, you hit your gutshot and there is $1.10 in the pot, I would bet more, at least the pot size. You have the nuts, get more money in!

On the river, and this is where I suck at cash, I think I'd have a hard time laying down a straight here even though any set on the flop or turn just filled up, as did 85, 98 and T8. Hopefully a more experienced cash game player will reply!

Again, welcome and GL.

[zook]

Welcome to FTR! In the future, it's better not to post results, that way they don't affect people's responses.

I'm with taipan... check this flop, fold if someone bets strongly, maaaaybe call if they bet weakly. You're in the worst position, and you have a really weak draw and two overs, check/fold is my usual line here. As played, bet that turn harder. Now that you've hit your hand you want to build the pot. River bet is ok, but when villain raises all-in with an obvious straight on the board, I think you've got to fold it.

[Pelion]

Welcome to FTR!

I personally wouldnt bet this flop for reasons others have said.

Once you reach the turn it looks like you are going to have a customer so bet to get a bit of value. I dont think you need to overbet, but with this much behind you shouldnt be betting so small. Id probably make it about 80 and hope someone has a 2 pair/set that they want to do something with. With this much behind the goal is to stack someone occasionally rather than take small pots often.

The river bet size isnt too bad but id probably make it half pot or so.

As played the pot is about $3 and you have to put in an extra $7 to call.

Thats pot odds of 3:7 or 1:2.3

That means you need to win more than 67% of the time to show a profit on this call. obviously a read would be helpful here but in general you are going to see a very strong hand. I think you can fold.

Played my way the pot would be more like $4.50 with $5.50 more to call. Thats much better odds and a much harder fold.

[Mert]

Thanks for the responses, people, it's much appreciated. Based on your feedback, I've been far more aggressive this evening when I have had the best hands and I'm currently up 130xBB for approximately 150 hands. It was helped by one dream hand though...

$10 NL Texas Hold'em - Monday, January 08, 13:06:37 ET 2007
Table Table 126814 (Real Money)
Seat 2 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: Player 1 ( $7 )
Seat 3: Player 2 ( $5.85 )
Seat 4: Player 3 ( $4.51 )
Seat 6: Player 4 ( $9 )
Seat 7: Fish ( $12.17 )
Seat 9: Player 5 ( $1.72 )
Seat 5: Player 6 ( $11.55 )
Seat 10: Hero ( $9.40 )
Seat 8: Player 7 ( $1.75 )
Seat 2: Player 8 ( $1.85 )
Player 2 posts small blind [$0.05].
Player 3 posts big blind [$0.10].

** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to Hero [ Ks Jc ]
Player 6 folds
Player 4 folds
Fish calls [$0.10]
Player 7 folds
Player 5 folds
Hero calls [$0.10]
Player 1 folds
Player 8 calls [$0.10]
Player 2 folds
Player 3 checks

** Dealing Flop ** [ Qc, 9s, Ts ]
Player 3 bets [$0.20]
Fish calls [$0.20]
Hero raises [$0.40]
Player 8 folds
Player 3 calls [$0.20]
Fish calls [$0.20]

** Dealing Turn ** [ As ]
Player 3 checks
Fish checks
Hero bets [$1]
Player 3 folds
Fish raises [$2]
Hero raises [$2]
Fish calls [$1]

** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
Fish checks
Hero is all-In [$5.90]
Fish calls [$5.90]

[zook]

Congrats on the hand, but your flop min-raise is terrible. You're giving them great odds to draw to the flush and bust your straight. Raise to $1.20 on the flop (pot is $0.80, your call makes is $1, so to $1.20 is pot sized). And why re-raise the c/r on the turn? Don't you think you're beat by the flush here? Nice river, but it looks like you got lucky.

[Mert]

I should probably point out that this guy has behaved like this on practically every hand he was in. I agree that on paper it looks like luck and I do appreciate your comments, especially about where I should bet more / be more aggressive as I feel that's the thing I need to work most on (I play really tight, but I'm still far too passive, though I have been improving).

So yeah, I was pretty certain this guy didn't have me beat on this hand but can see my play wasn't perfect either, which is why I posted it up.

Thanks again,

Mert