Looking for a little HELP...

[Jager]

I am looking for answers. Each time I try to move from $100 to $200 either 6 max or FR, I am getting destroyed. The thing is that I am killing $100 and lower.

6 max-------:100-------------- :200
Stats---------:19.3/13.1----- :18.3/11.3
BB/100-----:13.25------------: -5.5


FR------------:100------------: 200
Stats--------:17.3/7.5-----: 15.6/8.4
BB/100----:11.5------------: 1.46

These stats are over several thousand hands at each level. I move up and lose then I rebuild, then I take another shot. Is there something about $200 that I am not getting? I was beating the $200 at Party pretty good. I don't understand why I am having so much trouble. I don't think the level of play is that much different at 6 max. The $200 6 max game is the only one that I have ever been a losing player at.

[martindcx1e]

how many hands at 200?

[Jager]

Its about 20k total at 100 and 200.

[Renton]

200 is much more difficult than 100. That being said, full ring is so easy you should be beating it. 200 6 max however is actually a fairly tough game.

[Jager]

My FR 200 problem is mostly bad beats and I am winning there. So I am not losing my mind that 200 6 max is where it starts to toughen up? There appears to be a lot more good LAGs there. At least a lot more than I am used to. Is this about the level that defines how good you are or can be? What I mean is if you can't beat this level you will never beat any higher level?

[Miffed22001]

200 is much more difficult than 100. That being said, full ring is so easy you should be beating it. 200 6 max however is actually a fairly tough game.

I ran goot, but id agree. Is the 200nl FR game as big a step from 100nl as the 6max game is ? (i havent played 200nl fr yet)

[Jager]

Well after a bad night of 100nl I am now rolled for NOTHING. One bad beat after another, I haven't had a set get paid in 4000 + hands, if I hit I bet and they fold, if I hit and they called I got outdrawn.

My top losing hands:
1. TT
2. KK
3. 66
4. 99
5. 55
6. 33
7. JJ
8. 44
9. 43s
10. KJ
11. AA

Net: -750 BBs

Should I try to rebuild small $10/$25?
Should I just take money from my bankroll at Neteller and continue to bang at $100?

Note: I have never deposited add'l money to any site.

[Jager]

Well I tried to rebuild...


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($55.35)
UTG ($48.75)
Button ($9.25)
Hero ($52.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J, Q.
UTG calls $0.50, 1 fold, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($1.50) T, J, 9 (3 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.5, UTG raises to $2, Hero raises to $6, BB folds, UTG calls $4.

Turn: ($14) 3 (2 players)
Hero bets $7, UTG calls $7.

River: ($28) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $10, UTG raises to $35.25, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $73.25





PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($26.95)
Hero ($24.60)
UTG ($10.05)
MP ($6.25)
CO ($7.20)
Button ($17.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 3, 3.
UTG raises to $1, 4 folds, Hero calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.10) 3, 7, 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75.

Turn: ($5.60) 6 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $2, Hero raises to $6, UTG calls $4.

River: ($17.60) T (2 players)
Hero bets $1.5, UTG calls $1.30 (All-In).

Final Pot: $20.40

Results in white below:
Hero has 3c 3h (three of a kind, threes).
UTG has 6c 6d (three of a kind, sixes).
Outcome: UTG wins $20.20. Hero wins $0.19.

After these 2 hands I have no choice but to redeposit.

[biondino]

You lost $4k in a night? Damn that's a downswing.

[Jager]

No not quite. I was moving up when I reached 10 buy ins in PStars. As I have always been at least a winning player this has always wotked for me. I moved down if I dropped below 8 buy ins. I left the rest of my roll in neteller. I had 2500 on Monday today I have 80.

[Galapogos]

Umm maybe stop for a week or two? I know this is a bad run and all and it's mostly just bad luck. But taking hits this hard can only have a negative impact on you. And I'm sure a lot more losses have or will start coming from corrupted play.

So take a hiatus and when you come back the game will feel fresh again.

[biondino]

The temptation to link to the BR management thread is pretty big right now. Jager, would you star in a series of commercials to demonstrate what ignoring BR management does to a winning player's roll?

[Fnord]

It's mostly just bad luck.

He's posting the bad beats and showing lots of weak-ass-missed-value betting. There is probably a lot of this attributable to all the routine hands he isn't showing.

The impact of a big pot here and there isn't a big deal in the long term, many times you got sucked out on or a couple hands ran into each other. Saved bets, found bets and stolen pots are key revenue streams.

The temptation to link to the BR management thread is pretty big right now. Jager, would you star in a series of commercials to demonstrate what ignoring BR management does to a winning player's roll?

The BR management advice you're/we're giving is more applicable to someone who can't replace their "roll." Sometime after I stopped caring much about pre-flop play, I stopped caring much about buy-in sizes and bankrolls. It's your money, good luck and have fun.

[biondino]

Point taken. Did he say how much he had in his roll? Tbh I don't think there's any point in talking about a sum of money being your bankroll if you're able to reload at the same stakes if you go busto.

[Jager]

My roll is 9k, it just isn't in the PStars account. The overall roll isn't a problem. I have never had to redeposit, I just always worked my way up the ladder.

When I am running bad I miss a ton of value bets, especially on the turn and sometimes on the river. I don't think it is so much bad luck as it is when you raise all PPs and you don't hit or when you hit you lose your stack you can end up going down quickly.

[dpe8598]

My roll is 9k, it just isn't in the PStars account. The overall roll isn't a problem. I have never had to redeposit, I just always worked my way up the ladder.

When I am running bad I miss a ton of value bets, especially on the turn and sometimes on the river. I don't think it is so much bad luck as it is when you raise all PPs and you don't hit or when you hit you lose your stack you can end up going down quickly.

I agree w/ Fnord, stop posting bad beats and start posting medium sized pot hands where you called and lost or checked and lost valued etc. For example, in past sessions I've lost up to 6 buyins in one session to 2 or 3 outters all in of 200 NL only to end up even or only 1 or 2 buyins down. Additionally, in some of these sessions I didn't even win any huge pots. However, the few times I've ever run REALLY bad, like lost 8 buyins in a session or 2, I absolutely know for a fact that I made mistakes during some medium sized pots.

I'm not saying for sure that this is what is happening with you, it is CERTAINLY possible to run 10 to 12 buyins down playing really great poker, but I do think you should stop focusing on the bad beats etc and start focusing on maintaing top value during every hand in the game.

[dpe8598]

Also, to answer your question about bankroll management. It sounds like you know you can crush the 100 game, so keep yourself rolled for that and keep crushing it. Wait a little while, get rolled again for the 200 after winning a good amount, and take another shot at the 200 game.

[IowaSkinsFan]

Jager, you seem like a good player as I have played with you a lot, you should be winning at 100NL. Idk about 200 that may be too big of a jump. Sometimes you go through horrible swings, but you still have to look at your game and make sure there's nothing wrong. Same if you are winning. DONT BE RESULT ORIENTED.