KK running into AA is killing me.... advice?

[gametight]

Whats up guys. This is my first post but Ive been reading forum for a while now. Currently I play mostly 100 NL multitabling and occassionaly some 200NL as well. I feel like going broke with KK to AA is one of my biggest leaks. I could use some advice from you guys.
I normally am in there raising a lot of pots, esecially when folded to me, so this can make it difficult for me. I have no problem folding kings to a 3-bet or even a limp- reraise if I feel Im beat. But it is the single reraise that is killing me. For example: One Mid. Pos. limper, I have kings on the button. I bump it up to 5. Then BB reraises to 14. At this point, given my playing style, his range could be anything from 99 up to AA including AK. Its Folded to me, in position and I decide to just call. (could be first mistake, but a reraise here puts about have my stak in the middle anyway) FLop comes lowcards and I just call flop, and call all- in on turn when another low blank hits. Does everyone here just laydown KK to a single reraise? THat seems like such a weak play to me but would have saved me about 900 bux in the last two weeks. Advice???

[martindcx1e]

welcome to ftr man.

noone folds KK to a single RR. losing with KK to AA generally isn't a "leak." try posting all of your big losing hands with them and see if we can help.

[gametight]

Texas Hold'em $1-$2 NL (real money), hand #947,517,731
Table Salinas, 3 Sep 2006 3:58 PM ET

Seat 2: chrgoetz00 ($45.80 in chips)
Seat 3: ThaBurgKid ($66.00 in chips)
Seat 4: chronictacos [ KS,KH ] ($104.60 in chips)
Seat 5: MacDaddyof4 ($141.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Nanaki1 ($103.15 in chips)
Seat 7: zufandel ($131.50 in chips)
Seat 9: 57ultra ($38.20 in chips)
Seat 10: Aungster ($108.20 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
Nanaki1 posts blind ($0.50), zufandel posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
57ultra folds, Aungster calls $1, chrgoetz00 folds, ThaBurgKid folds, chronictacos bets $4.50, MacDaddyof4 folds, Nanaki1 folds, zufandel bets $12, Aungster folds, chronictacos calls $8.50.

FLOP [board cards 7H,3D,3S ]
zufandel bets $21, chronictacos calls $21.

TURN [board cards 7H,3D,3S,4S ]
zufandel bets $71, chronictacos calls $70.60 and is all-in.

RIVER [board cards 7H,3D,3S,4S,6H ]

SHOWDOWN
zufandel shows [ AH,AC ]
chronictacos mucks cards [ KS,KH ]
zufandel wins $209.10.

SUMMARY
Dealer: MacDaddyof4
Pot: $211.10, (including rake: $2)
chrgoetz00 loses $0
ThaBurgKid loses $0
chronictacos loses $104.60
MacDaddyof4 loses $0
Nanaki1 loses $0.50
zufandel bets $105, collects $209.10, net $104.10
57ultra loses $0
Aungster loses $1



Texas Hold'em $1-$2 NL (real money), hand #879,757,756
Table Eureka, 20 Aug 2006 1:58 PM ET

Seat 1: Dejw_CzechR ($91.00 in chips)
Seat 2: chronictacos [ KS,KD ] ($95.10 in chips)
Seat 3: scottyrob1 ($21.40 in chips)
Seat 4: AsTiger ($98.90 in chips)
Seat 5: miss_chen ($95.80 in chips)
Seat 6: buckeyetodd1 ($134.50 in chips)
Seat 7: schurik187 ($125.10 in chips)
Seat 8: VeryGrimm ($156.45 in chips)
Seat 9: HoosMobney ($95.10 in chips)
Seat 10: LaLandonne ($95.50 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
AsTiger posts blind ($0.50), miss_chen posts blind ($1).

PRE-FLOP
buckeyetodd1 calls $1, schurik187 bets $4.50, VeryGrimm calls $4.50, HoosMobney folds, LaLandonne folds, Dejw_CzechR folds, chronictacos bets $18, scottyrob1 folds, AsTiger folds, miss_chen folds, buckeyetodd1 folds, schurik187 folds, VeryGrimm bets $151.95 and is all-in, chronictacos calls $77.10 and is all-in.

FLOP [board cards 3S,5D,AS ]

TURN [board cards 3S,5D,AS,2D ]

RIVER [board cards 3S,5D,AS,2D,2H ]

SHOWDOWN
VeryGrimm shows [ AD,AC ]
chronictacos shows [ KS,KD ]
VeryGrimm wins $256.55.

SUMMARY
Dealer: scottyrob1
Pot: $258.55, (including rake: $2)
Dejw_CzechR loses $0
chronictacos loses $95.10
scottyrob1 loses $0
AsTiger loses $0.50
miss_chen loses $1
buckeyetodd1 loses $1
schurik187 loses $4.50
VeryGrimm bets $156.45, collects $256.55, net $100.10
HoosMobney loses $0
LaLandonne loses $0





Texas Hold'em $1-$2 NL (real money), hand #802,469,482
Table Lubumbashi, 3 Aug 2006 9:45 PM ET

Seat 1: Double_SL ($99.85 in chips)
Seat 2: AcesTaber10x ($19.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Kolyic_10 ($66.30 in chips)
Seat 4: DeviLisHEyz0 ($46.10 in chips)
Seat 5: montrealphil ($74.10 in chips)
Seat 6: tdoggy11 ($25.40 in chips)
Seat 7: chronictacos [ KC,KS ] ($72.90 in chips)
Seat 8: CksN2Csh ($205.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Big Ran ($98.90 in chips)
Seat 10: natmailus ($184.00 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
tdoggy11 posts blind ($0.50), chronictacos posts blind ($1), DeviLisHEyz0 posts blind ($1), DeviLisHEyz0 posts blind ($0.50).

PRE-FLOP
CksN2Csh folds, Big Ran folds, natmailus bets $4, Double_SL folds, AcesTaber10x folds, Kolyic_10 folds, DeviLisHEyz0 calls $3, montrealphil bets $10, tdoggy11 folds, chronictacos bets $29, natmailus folds, DeviLisHEyz0 folds, montrealphil bets $64.10 and is all-in, chronictacos calls $42.90 and is all-in.

FLOP [board cards 8D,3H,2S ]

TURN [board cards 8D,3H,2S,3S ]

RIVER [board cards 8D,3H,2S,3S,JH ]

SHOWDOWN
montrealphil shows [ AH,AS ]
chronictacos shows [ KC,KS ]
montrealphil wins $154.

SUMMARY
Dealer: montrealphil
Pot: $156, (including rake: $2)
Double_SL loses $0
AcesTaber10x loses $0
Kolyic_10 loses $0
DeviLisHEyz0 loses $4.50
montrealphil bets $74.10, collects $154, net $79.90
tdoggy11 loses $0.50
chronictacos loses $72.90
CksN2Csh loses $0
Big Ran loses $0
natmailus loses $4

[r8ed]

I folded KK to AA once preflop. Turns out the guy had KK.

If you have a loose image and the flop is all unders and you face aggression, I would think stacking off with KK is a minor leak. If the board is very uncoordinated, then maybe lay it down but the times you guess right vs. wrong after sinking in half your stack is the issue. I think it's better just to pay them off unless they are usually passive players.

[martindcx1e]

i will say this about getting all-in pre-flop with full stacks...say villain opens for a raise in front of you, you re-raise about 3x his raise, and he pushes. if you can reasonably put villain on QQ+ then you are 50% vs. his range. if you're comfortable gambling in this spot then fine. i just think more people should be aware of the risk in this spot.

[martindcx1e]

I folded KK to AA once preflop. Turns out the guy had KK.

what?

[bode]

i keep hearing people say "dont fold KK preflop without a really good read", but ive had my stack taken 3 times in the past week with KK beat by AA (over only 1250 hands). 2 of the 3 times its been all in PF, which i knew (99%) i was up against AA. I think there may be more merit in laying KK down sometimes, although it would suck to lay it down against the other KK.

[martindcx1e]

i keep hearing people say "dont fold KK preflop without a really good read", but ive had my stack taken 3 times in the past week with KK beat by AA (over only 1250 hands). 2 of the 3 times its been all in PF, which i knew (99%) i was up against AA. I think there may be more merit in laying KK down sometimes, although it would suck to lay it down against the other KK.

i think something gets to people's heads when they hold the cowboys. in general we tend to give people credit for trying to play "good" poker until proven otherwise. lots of people advocate folding QQ pre-flop in situations where they fear AA/KK but when in the same situation with KK they mysteriously don't have any doubts anymore. they try to convince themselves that villain could easily have AK or even some crap like 88. i think people lose some of their reasoning when they get KK and just chuck their losses up to variance.

[BankItDrew]

I'm not one for bad beat stories or anything, because I just hate hearing them, but...

Last night I was 9 tabling pokerstars and two hands in a row I got dealt KK and lost to AA all in pre-flop. Two hands in a row. Is this even mathematically possible? I actually started laughing out loud because I felt sick.

Last night I had never seen so many river against me either. I got all of my chips in the middle many times on the turn and lost 100 and 150bb stacks to a 1 and 3 outter respectively. I'll always maintain my composure though (or try to at least, because the most important thing is just getting the money in when ahead).

That being said, KK is usually ahead preflop. There are some instances where you chould be laying it down though. For example: you re-raise a tighty and he shoves overtop. If he has QQ or less, he's scared of KK or AA and wouldn't do this. I've never folded it though... I should but I haven't... At the stakes I play at, people shove with big aces. That and I don't use any software so it's hard to get many reads. I strongly reccommend using software.

[djzcko]

I generally don't lay it down. The one time I actually did, he had AA (thank God he showed!). The other time I knew 100% villain had AA (what else could a 1% raiser have after 3 betting me?) I called and hoped for a miracle flop. Hit my set on the flop and took it down...however, without the set I was going to lay it down to any flop action. Thank you luckbox! Statistically speaking, you will run into AA with KK once every 25x you have KK in full ring. So, with that said, I still don't think it is worth laying down unless you are almost 100% sure he has AA. Reads and PT stats are great for this...and luckbox sure helps. In 33k hands of $50nl, I have been lucky with KK vs AA as I am actually ahead moneywise...won 3x and lost 4x but the 3 that I won were all full stacks+ while the 4 losses were mostly short stacks.

So, to answer your question, no I don't think it is a leak. I bet there are bigger leaks to fix than KK vs AA...

[martindcx1e]

yes you are ahead most of the time pre-flop with KK vs. 9 other people's random hand ranges. but once big betting occurs pre-flop their hand range shrinks massively (unless you have a read that villain is a horrid donk who hates money). also, it's not just about whether you think he has AA or not. if his range is QQ+ you are only 50%. if his range is KK+ then you are behind his range. and with full stacks getting all-in pre-flop i'd say villain holding AA is more likely than QQ given the action usually. another thing to remember is that people's 4-betting range is much smaller than their 3-betting range.

[Laeelin]

The level of the player makes a HUGE diffrence in laying down KK preflop....

In $10NL it's the nuts preflop against average players...

In $100NL it's can be laid down fairly easilly against average players...

In $400NL it's the nuts preflop against average players...

(just rough examples, players vary, some people it's easy to fold to, others it's the nuts.)

As you go up in level, the average players reraise range opens up more and more.... (and the very low levels)

When an average reraise hand was only AA-KK at $100NL folding is easy... when you hit $400NL they might be reraiseing you with AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, AK, 98s, 33, J7o, or whatever, folding is nearly impossible.

ps: keep in mind it's not the buy-in that makes things change, it's the players... i'm just talking about in very general terms when mentioning the diffrent buy-in levels.... and against an unknown, I have never folded KK

[The Izebox]

Heads up I never ever lay KK heads up. Ever.

So the guy had aces and you had Kings. Big deal. Thats just bad luck, I cant tell you how many hands ive called the push preflop dreading aces and saw AK, JJ, or QQ (or worse!) Then again, if im playing correctly, the whole table hates me and would push marginal hands.

But dude, youre problem is bad luck, not bad play. Dont ever lay KK preflop (especially from a limp reraise from the utg).

[TerryToma]

KK vs AA pf is just a part of variance.. it happened to me 3 out of 5 times i had KK one day.. dont worry it will pass.

just like set v set.. you will be on both sides of it.. however with pokertracker/reads you might be able to avoid it.. if not dont sweat it.

[martindcx1e]

i think never folding KK heads-up is a leak. not many will agree, but i think there are definitely spots where it's ok to fold.

i think set over set is much easier to call bad luck than KK vs. AA. i think losing a stack is avoidable when you hold KK and villain holds AA. pre-flop action easily shrinks villain's hand range. post-flop ranges are much larger and much harder to put someone on a set.

[TerryToma]

i think set v set on flop and AA v KK pf is very similar. im not saying you cant see them coming.. i am saying there are times when it is ok to fold these.. but you definitely need a read/pokertracker.

[martindcx1e]

i think set v set on flop and AA v KK pf is very similar. im not saying you cant see them coming.. i am saying there are times when it is ok to fold these.. but you definitely need a read/pokertracker.

i think villain's range in most set over set confrontations is much much larger than his range in big bet pre-flop confrontations.

[TerryToma]

i think set v set on flop and AA v KK pf is very similar. im not saying you cant see them coming.. i am saying there are times when it is ok to fold these.. but you definitely need a read/pokertracker.

i think villain's range in most set over set confrontations is much much larger than his range in big bet pre-flop confrontations.

i agree.. FWIW i rarely go AI preflop with KK anymore.. i do more calling and seeing flops with it.. i like to see what they do on the flop.. i might call an allin raise with KK much easier than i would push KK preflop. unless of course its vs a shorty or a read. ever since i switched from shorty to deep stacked poker, i rarely push early streets without the nuts.. i like to see the turn card, it has cut down on my variance quite a bit.. plus my hand reading has gotten much better..

[dioufy77]

3rd raise is aces! not ace king beware the third raise. stick to that rule you mite not get beat by aces so much

[Laeelin]

3rd raise is aces! not ace king beware the third raise. stick to that rule you mite not get beat by aces so much

Just sticking to that is going to cost you money.

It's the player that makes a diffrence. Some only re-reraise with AA, others will with a wider range (some much much wider)

For example, my re-raise range is a lot wider than AA... and thats at full ring, it's even wider in 6-max.

[bode]

i think set v set on flop and AA v KK pf is very similar. im not saying you cant see them coming.. i am saying there are times when it is ok to fold these.. but you definitely need a read/pokertracker.

i think villain's range in most set over set confrontations is much much larger than his range in big bet pre-flop confrontations.

QFT

[Thee One]

While it's possible that not folding KK to AA preflop is a leak, I think most of us have far bigger leaks to work on. Therefore, IMHO, working on trying to fix KK to AA is -EV when you can fix some of your other, much bigger, more costly leaks. How often do you see KK vs AA, and how often do you C-bet into that calling station? I'd guess the latter is far more than the former, even if you are a good player.

[dioufy77]

my third raise is aces is a general rule not locked in stone. let me quote you tj cloutier " there are alot of situations when you wont call a raise before the flop. suppose that player c raises on the button and one of the blind pops it again. unless you have a pair of aces, you propably shouldnt call; you should throw awat youre kings. you dont have much invested in the pot and even if he doesnt have aces; its not a bad play to fold the kings. where i was schooled in dallas, the second raise propably would have been aces but the third raise was like ivory snow:99.9 percent pure aces. its not ace king in this situation.. its aces" so if its good enough for tj well... you know

[Laeelin]

Therefore, IMHO, working on trying to fix KK to AA is -EV when you can fix some of your other, much bigger, more costly leaks.

It's a super easy leak to fix if you use a HUD though...

If a player that has a 2% PFR re-reraises you, then your playing KK for set value. If a 20% PFR player re-reraises you, push all in.

[bode]

KK running into AA is killing me.... advice?

get dealt AA, obviously.

PokerStars Game #6347934032: Holdem No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/09/19 - 21:06:30 (ET)
Table Teucer V 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Rounder Bill ($26.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Beldar69 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: joovenile ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 4: DaRKHoRSe222 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 6: Vermination ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 7: IKash24 ($56.55 in chips)
Seat 8: lowhanginset ($41.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Bode-ist ($25.15 in chips)
Bode-ist: posts small blind $0.10
Rounder Bill: posts big blind $0.25
Beldar69: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bode-ist [Ac As]
Drinky_Girl joins the table at seat #5
Beldar69: raises $0.75 to $1
joovenile: folds
DaRKHoRSe222: folds
Vermination: folds
IKash24: folds
lowhanginset: folds
Bode-ist: raises $1.50 to $2.50
Rounder Bill: folds
Beldar69: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [5s 7d Qh]
Bode-ist: checks
Beldar69: checks
*** TURN *** [5s 7d Qh] [6s]
Bode-ist: bets $2.50
Beldar69: raises $2.50 to $5
Bode-ist: calls $2.50
*** RIVER *** [5s 7d Qh 6s] [Td]
Bode-ist: checks
Drinky_Girl leaves the table
Beldar69: bets $17.50 and is all-in
Bode-ist: calls $17.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Beldar69: shows [Kd Kh] (a pair of Kings)
Bode-ist: shows [Ac As] (a pair of Aces)
Beldar69 is sitting out
Bode-ist collected $47.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $50.25 | Rake $2.45
Board [5s 7d Qh 6s Td]
Seat 1: Rounder Bill (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Beldar69 showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: joovenile folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: DaRKHoRSe222 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 6: Vermination folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 7: IKash24 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 8: lowhanginset (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 9: Bode-ist (small blind) showed [Ac As] and won ($47.80) with a pair of Aces

[aislephive]

There are a few spots against certain opponents you can lay down KK preflop to. With that said, there aren't many and I wouldn't feel bad about it. Most of you guys are being very results oriented about this. It's never a standard fold, it requires a good read / situation when they would only make that play with AA/KK, and most people at low stakes are violatale and felt weak hands fairly easily.

[martindcx1e]

KK running into AA is killing me.... advice?

get dealt AA, obviously.

PokerStars Game #6347934032: Holdem No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2006/09/19 - 21:06:30 (ET)
Table Teucer V 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: Rounder Bill ($26.05 in chips)
Seat 2: Beldar69 ($25 in chips)
Seat 3: joovenile ($4.20 in chips)
Seat 4: DaRKHoRSe222 ($24.65 in chips)
Seat 6: Vermination ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 7: IKash24 ($56.55 in chips)
Seat 8: lowhanginset ($41.50 in chips)
Seat 9: Bode-ist ($25.15 in chips)
Bode-ist: posts small blind $0.10
Rounder Bill: posts big blind $0.25
Beldar69: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Bode-ist [Ac As]
Drinky_Girl joins the table at seat #5
Beldar69: raises $0.75 to $1
joovenile: folds
DaRKHoRSe222: folds
Vermination: folds
IKash24: folds
lowhanginset: folds
Bode-ist: raises $1.50 to $2.50
Rounder Bill: folds
Beldar69: calls $1.50
*** FLOP *** [5s 7d Qh]
Bode-ist: checks
Beldar69: checks
*** TURN *** [5s 7d Qh] [6s]
Bode-ist: bets $2.50
Beldar69: raises $2.50 to $5
Bode-ist: calls $2.50
*** RIVER *** [5s 7d Qh 6s] [Td]
Bode-ist: checks
Drinky_Girl leaves the table
Beldar69: bets $17.50 and is all-in
Bode-ist: calls $17.50
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Beldar69: shows [Kd Kh] (a pair of Kings)
Bode-ist: shows [Ac As] (a pair of Aces)
Beldar69 is sitting out
Bode-ist collected $47.80 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $50.25 | Rake $2.45
Board [5s 7d Qh 6s Td]
Seat 1: Rounder Bill (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: Beldar69 showed [Kd Kh] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 3: joovenile folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 4: DaRKHoRSe222 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 6: Vermination folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 7: IKash24 folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 8: lowhanginset (button) folded before Flop (didnt bet)
Seat 9: Bode-ist (small blind) showed [Ac As] and won ($47.80) with a pair of Aces

ya it's easy see?

Texas Hold'em $0.10-$0.25 NL (real money), hand #1,022,888,366
Table Newcastle, 19 Sep 2006 2:12 PM ET

Seat 1: GetUreMoney ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 2: Dear Oetri ($28.40 in chips)
Seat 3: Hero [ AS,AD ] ($25.00 in chips)
Seat 4: huli8888 ($3.00 in chips)
Seat 5: karlsbad2 ($24.35 in chips)
Seat 6: WorseCaller ($19.55 in chips)
Seat 7: Iocaste ($29.80 in chips)
Seat 8: HDFire ($24.75 in chips)
Seat 9: MiaFia721 ($23.00 in chips)
Seat 10: -sparks- ($22.75 in chips)
ANTES/BLINDS
WorseCaller posts blind ($0.15), Iocaste posts blind ($0.25).

PRE-FLOP
HDFire folds, MiaFia721 calls $0.25, -sparks- bets $2, GetUreMoney folds, Dear Oetri folds, Hero bets $6, huli8888 folds, karlsbad2 folds, WorseCaller folds, Iocaste folds, MiaFia721 folds, -sparks- calls $4.

FLOP [board cards 8D,3D,JH ]
-sparks- checks, Hero bets $9, -sparks- bets $16.75 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.75.

TURN [board cards 8D,3D,JH,4H ]

RIVER [board cards 8D,3D,JH,4H,AH ]

SHOWDOWN
-sparks- shows [ KC,KD ]
Hero shows [ AS,AD ]
Hero wins $45.65.

[Galapogos]

My standard KK preflop play: When I'm OOP I raise and if I'm reraised I call and lead the flop. Fold to aggression. When in position reraise the initial raiser and call the reraise if it's reasonable. Most guys at 25NL get so excited with AA they genrally will immediately go all in on the third bet though so it's an easy fold.

The extreme majority of people will tell you to go all in with KK preflop if you can every time in the absense of reads. I think they are totally wrong to say this for lower stakes. In fact, it's pretty reckless. From 25NL to 100NL 95% of the hands reraising preflop are KK or AA. Anyone who is reraising with a wider range than that is going to stick out like a sore thumb so you will know when it's ok.

I stopped playing KK all in preflop against unknowns or semi-decent players+ some time ago and do not believe I have lost any value vs the amount I would lose when up against AA because that is the only hand you will find you're up against the vast majority of the times.

So to sum up, while everyone is saying go all in preflop with KK if possible unless you have reads, I say get all in vs aggression ONLY WITH reads. Only on trickier looser tables do I believe it has value to blindly go all in with preflop. And generally these days 25NL is not as loose as some of these guys seem to remember it.

[martindcx1e]

My standard KK preflop play: When I'm OOP I raise and if I'm reraised I call and lead the flop. Fold to aggression. When in position reraise the initial raiser and call the reraise if it's reasonable. Most guys at 25NL get so excited with AA they genrally will immediately go all in on the third bet though so it's an easy fold.

The extreme majority of people will tell you to go all in with KK preflop if you can every time in the absense of reads. I think they are totally wrong to say this for lower stakes. In fact, it's pretty reckless. From 25NL to 100NL 95% of the hands reraising preflop are KK or AA. Anyone who is reraising with a wider range than that is going to stick out like a sore thumb so you will know when it's ok.

I stopped playing KK all in preflop against unknowns or semi-decent players+ some time ago and do not believe I have lost any value vs the amount I would lose when up against AA because that is the only hand you will find you're up against the vast majority of the times.

So to sum up, while everyone is saying go all in preflop with KK if possible unless you have reads, I say get all in vs aggression ONLY WITH reads. Only on trickier looser tables do I believe it has value to blindly go all in with preflop. And generally these days 25NL is not as loose as some of these guys seem to remember it.

QFT. I agree 100% man.