Other sites

[Rockymv]

Now that this stupid monster promotion is ruining the regular tables on PP, I think I want to cash out my roll and move elsewhere. Where should I go? RB is required. I'm 6 tabling 100NL 6max.

[Miffed22001]

tribeca is soft, look for rb
pokerroom (rb+fish)
UB (rb+reloads, not great tables)
prima (not a lot of table selection, rb+average tables, but not US nightime)
b2b rock fest, bonuses pretty much gone
ap rb+reloads but tight
stars (erm -ev if u dont suck imo)

any more?

Edit: crypto, good rb, reloads across several skins per month, reasonably easy tables+mtts.
dise, no rb/few reloads but good tables.

boss/pacific/i-poker are also worth a look for good games (may also do rb(i-poker has good bonuses)) but im not sure how good table selection and pacific may not have multitabling yet (coming soon if not, so they say)

any thing else? This is all imo btw.

[Miffed22001]

bodog!

[Rockymv]

What are your guys thoughts on this? I think I might have been overreacting a little bit. Scanning the PP lobby just now there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference between the avg. pot sizes of regular and monster tables.

[Miffed22001]

What are your guys thoughts on this? I think I might have been overreacting a little bit. Scanning the PP lobby just now there doesn't seem to be that big of a difference between the avg. pot sizes of regular and monster tables.

rake

looks like the rake has doubled from like 0.25 on a $5 pot to 0.5

not totally sure yet however.

[andy-akb]

I dont even get wtf the monster tables are. I read the details at the party website but I really dont get what the point of the cash game tables are.

[Rockymv]

I dont even get wtf the monster tables are. I read the details at the party website but I really dont get what the point of the cash game tables are.

I don't totally get it either. They take .50 out of each pot at these tables. Part of this .50 goes to the Monster tournament prize pool, and part of it goes to the normal bad beat jackpot. The problem is that all the fish will go "ooooh jackpot gambooool" and play at the monster tables, while the rest of us are stuck at rockfest regular tables.

Having said that, I play 2k tonight and the regular tables didn't seem to be too much tighter than usual. It could be that the average fish is aware enough to realize that the Monster tables are really really stupid.

[a500lbgorilla]

sit at the monster tables. Once you get past your nittiness, you'll realize that "ooooh jackpot gambooool" means that you can crush the game since all the rocks dont wanna play.

[Miffed22001]

sit at the monster tables. Once you get past your nittiness, you'll realize that "ooooh jackpot gambooool" means that you can crush the game since all the rocks dont wanna play.

will more fish make up for the increased rake?

tough call, increased rake could take you from 4bbs/100 to 2bs/100 alone possibly.

[Rockymv]

sit at the monster tables. Once you get past your nittiness, you'll realize that "ooooh jackpot gambooool" means that you can crush the game since all the rocks dont wanna play.

I play 100NL. That's like 4BB/100 or something. You think extra fish are gonna make that up? I don't.

[andy-akb]

At $100NL there are currently [this is at noon EST] 18 FULL non-monster 6max tables and there are plenty of tables with 4 and 5 players. You should be practicing table selection to begin with, so just datamine for about an hour before sitting and pick the best tables. There may not be as many [and I really havent compared, but I have heard the monster tables are a lot worse] but at these stakes there will be enough for you to not have to play at a rockfest.

[pgil]

you would datamine for an hour??? is that really necessary? why not sit down and, you know, read players and play poker?

[andy-akb]

you would datamine for an hour??? is that really necessary? why not sit down and, you know, read players and play poker?

Well, you know, I do sit down, and yea, I do, um read players, and hey, I also may play a game called poker. Its a funny thing, because this game I play also lets me make money too.

I typically just wake up around 1130, open up 12 tables to mine, shower, eat lunch, etc. and then come back whenever Im done with what I was doing and pick the best tables to sit at. Why wouldnt you do this? If you have the option to sit at a table where nearly everybody has close to a 100 hands of stats or to sit where nobody has any stats, why wouldnt you pick to sit with players with stats? Have you ever had a hand in the beginning of your session where you said, "Man, I really wish I had a read on this guy" only to make the wrong play? This allows me to avoid most of that or atleast simplify my decisions by giving me some extra info.

So yea, I play poker to make money, doing this helps me make more money.

[mb2447]

bit of a hijack:

i thought PP didn't allow datamining? At least something in PT steered me towards this conclusion. Is it still just view tables and import hands in PT?

I really thought that didn't work anymore.

[andy-akb]

bit of a hijack:

i thought PP didn't allow datamining? At least something in PT steered me towards this conclusion. Is it still just view tables and import hands in PT?

I really thought that didn't work anymore.

You need to download another program that "grabs" observed hands and then have PT import those

[Miffed22001]

bit of a hijack:

i thought PP didn't allow datamining? At least something in PT steered me towards this conclusion. Is it still just view tables and import hands in PT?

I really thought that didn't work anymore.

You need to download another program that "grabs" observed hands and then have PT import those

dont provide a link then rofl.

fwiw, you shudnt need to datamine, after 0 hands at any table you know who the fish/best player/rock probably is.

[IowaSkinsFan]

I don't think anyone mentioned paradise. It's kinda gone downhill in terms of how many players are playing. But they have some fishy NL tables after 6:00 and anytime on the weekends. If you play past 11:00 it's a huge fish/maniac fest. Sit n go's have a terrible blind structure (goes up every 10 hands) and headsup is usually a luck fest. However at lower stakes the fishy's don't understand pot odds and will be so weak it will be easy to win.

[andy-akb]

bit of a hijack:

i thought PP didn't allow datamining? At least something in PT steered me towards this conclusion. Is it still just view tables and import hands in PT?

I really thought that didn't work anymore.

You need to download another program that "grabs" observed hands and then have PT import those

dont provide a link then rofl.

fwiw, you shudnt need to datamine, after 0 hands at any table you know who the fish/best player/rock probably is.

I didnt provide a link?

I never said I had to datamine, but please explain how after 0 hands I should be able to know who a fish or rock is? Honestly, you make it seem as though Im saying I couldnt win without datamining and that it is something I need to do and that isnt true at all. Everybody at this site wants to win and to improve their winrate, datamining is an easy way to do that and my method of table selection is fairly common practice, especially at higher stakes and for good reason, it makes you more money.

[Miffed22001]

bit of a hijack:

i thought PP didn't allow datamining? At least something in PT steered me towards this conclusion. Is it still just view tables and import hands in PT?

I really thought that didn't work anymore.

You need to download another program that "grabs" observed hands and then have PT import those

dont provide a link then rofl.

fwiw, you shudnt need to datamine, after 0 hands at any table you know who the fish/best player/rock probably is.

I didnt provide a link?

I never said I had to datamine, but please explain how after 0 hands I should be able to know who a fish or rock is? Honestly, you make it seem as though Im saying I couldnt win without datamining and that it is something I need to do and that isnt true at all. Everybody at this site wants to win and to improve their winrate, datamining is an easy way to do that and my method of table selection is fairly common practice, especially at higher stakes and for good reason, it makes you more money.

i typoed and missed out the 1 for 10

[midas06]

I think you are all over reacting a bit to this.

No limit tables are the least affected by this, compared to lhe, omaha and stud etc.

I think everyone should be fine on party, except for 2/4 lhe players. Remember that you have some EV in the jackpot games, and the other tables are still going to be played on by fish as well.

[Rockymv]

I think you are all over reacting a bit to this.

No limit tables are the least affected by this, compared to lhe, omaha and stud etc.

I think everyone should be fine on party, except for 2/4 lhe players. Remember that you have some EV in the jackpot games, and the other tables are still going to be played on by fish as well.

I decided this would be a good time to take a shot at 200NL, so I played some at the Monster tables. They are sooooo soft.

[Miffed22001]

No limit tables are the least affected by this, compared to lhe, omaha and stud etc.

Your win rate in omaha is affected by rake?!

lololololol

[samsonite2100]

I didnt provide a link?

So, about this link I've heard so much about...

[Rockymv]

I didnt provide a link?

So, about this link I've heard so much about...

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...31&an=0&page=0

[Rockymv]

well since it turns out i can't beat the 200nl monster tables, i'm back to wondering what i should to do. 100nl monster is out of the question. and the regular tables suck.

[andy-akb]

well since it turns out i can't beat the 200nl monster tables, i'm back to wondering what i should to do. 100nl monster is out of the question. and the regular tables suck.

Yea man, at 200nl its something like an extra 2ptbb/100 of rake.

Id say use some table selection at the regular 100nl tables. I did some mining to compare the two and honestly, the regular tables arent that noticeably different than the monsters and there were still enough that were good to play at, hardly rockish at all at this was around 1pm EST. If you do want to move, Id check out the ongame network.

EDIT: If you do decide to play at the monster tables, install this and it will get rid of the annoying sliding jackpot thing and the extra rake. It is made for a black background mod, so if you dont have that youll see tiny black dots moving around, but thats it:
http://www.andy-akb.com/Party_NoMonster_Mod.rar

[Rockymv]

What about prima? it seems alright...

[andy-akb]

Id say you should go with Full Tilt and get some rakeback. Also, check out this site to see current traffic across most networks:
http://www.pokersitescout.com/index.asp

[mb2447]

I'm trying to get some hard facts about non-party sites. Specifically, what sites allow PT, 6+ tables, rakeback, and preferably soft players?

Cheers.

[vegascoop]

I'm consolidating my br and moving up to NL50. You guys are talking about rakeback on sites that aren't in the FTR list of rakeback sites. I'm fairly clueless about how to go about getting rakeback. Is there another post or somewhere to look for more up to date info? Any help appreciated.

I was planning to go back to Party but you guys are scaring me...

[Miffed22001]

One caveat before you bookmark this link.
If FTR offers a rakeback scheme at a site then use it, it helps support the site we all use. (i try where i can, but i also have other stuff)

Otherwise use the below site to find a rakeback affiliate for a poker room you want to use
http://www.rakerebatereview.com/

also, i was under the impression tribeca didnt do rb with its soft games, they do.

This should all probably be in online poker rooms, but i guess while the monster promotion is causing so much fuss its probably better off in here where it will get most attention

[vegascoop]

thanks miffed. you mentioned pokerroom had rb but I dont see that anywhere. i just cleared the bonus at holdempoker. i liked the games there so if i could get rb and bonus at pokerroom it would be excellent.

[Miffed22001]

hollywood poker, should still be doing it. eurobet might depends erm pokerroom should also still be offering rb or at least it was last time i looked.

The sites on that list i linked should all be kosher so there shouldnt be any trouble no matter which affiliate you use

[Robert]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

[Rockymv]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

From what I saw at 2p2 it seems that at 200NL the total rake has jumped from 2ptbb/100 to 4ptbb/100.

[Robert]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

From what I saw at 2p2 it seems that at 200NL the total rake has jumped from 2ptbb/100 to 4ptbb/100.

yeah, that was what people said over 2+2 at first, but theres been done some calculations over empirical data and the results have been that the increase in rake is less than first expected. Its somewhere in the big "Party Monster" thread on 2+2.

[Warpe]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

I don't think any extra "softness" is going to last for any length of time, if there is any. It's still the same player base on the whole.

[DaNutsInYoEye]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

I don't think any extra "softness" is going to last for any length of time, if there is any. It's still the same player base on the whole.

Exactly. It's not like there has been a sudden influx of new players that are signing up to play on Party just because of this promotion. It's all the same players thus your winrate will go down.

[andy-akb]

At NL100 your winrate wont drop 4PTBB/100 because of the extra rake at the monster tables. There's been some calculations done over at 2+2 at it seems like its more like 1.5PTBB/100. I think the extra softness at the monster tables will make up for that.

I don't think any extra "softness" is going to last for any length of time, if there is any. It's still the same player base on the whole.

Exactly. It's not like there has been a sudden influx of new players that are signing up to play on Party just because of this promotion. It's all the same players thus your winrate will go down.

This isnt true, even with the same playerbase the tables can hypothetically be softer, just think about it.

The winning players understand the rake will hurt them, they navigate to the regular tables and continue playing. The fish dont know what rake is and only see the huge jackpot, they also only see the monster tables when they open up party so by default they are mostly going to be sitting there and arent going to seek out the regular tables. So yea, the player base itself may be numerically the same, but that doesnt matter because the concentration of fish will be higher at the monster tables so they will be softer.

Personally from my observations I havent seen a huge difference, Ill look into it more but right now both tables are about the same. Again though, I was just trying to show that even without a increase in players one set could easily be fishier. And im sure this promo will increase the player base as well when the fish tell their friends, or some ads come out, etc.

[Irisheyes]

Why does everyone not play at Bodog?

Are there downsides to this site that I'm missing?

[Rockymv]

Why does everyone not play at Bodog?

Are there downsides to this site that I'm missing?

not enough traffic. right now it looks like 6max tables for 200NL and 400NL tables do not exist.

[Genitruc]

Fish factor is completely unreal. If this doesn't improve your winrate by 4bb/100 MIN I honestly think there is something wrong with your game. By limping behind when all the fish limp and waiting on monsters you are basically being given free money.

Long live this promotion.

[andy-akb]

Fish factor is completely unreal. If this doesn't improve your winrate by 4bb/100 MIN I honestly think there is something wrong with your game. By limping behind when all the fish limp and waiting on monsters you are basically being given free money.

Long live this promotion.

4 big blinds or ptbbs? Thats a bold claim and Im not sure how accurate it is. Maybe somebody who plays 12 tables can hammer out a decent sample [nothing huge, but over 10k hands] just to get a general idea of the differences between the tables. I know it wont be 100% accurate but I think it would be interesting to see.

[Genitruc]

Fish factor is completely unreal. If this doesn't improve your winrate by 4bb/100 MIN I honestly think there is something wrong with your game. By limping behind when all the fish limp and waiting on monsters you are basically being given free money.

Long live this promotion.

4 big blinds or ptbbs? Thats a bold claim and Im not sure how accurate it is. Maybe somebody who plays 12 tables can hammer out a decent sample [nothing huge, but over 10k hands] just to get a general idea of the differences between the tables. I know it wont be 100% accurate but I think it would be interesting to see.

yeah it's a pretty bold claim

I'm just settling into Party 6 max after playing on b 2 b for a gajillion hands and beating that game.

So the party tables pretty much seem like playmoney tables.

I guess I'm just in awe of the fish : shark ratio. Maybe Party is always this bad... it's just that EVERY MONSTER TABLE I sat at was teaming with unspeakably bad players (nl200).

If the play at Party is this bad all the time (at leats at nl200) then obviously my "claim" is both worthless and meaningless.

But regardless, play this bad makes it virtually impossible to lose over a large sample size unless you don't know what hand beats what...

also, fwiw, I'm basing my assessment of the tables on thousands of observed hands at the same limits on Party as well as my limited experience sitting.

[Ravageur]

I've been 6-tabling NL 200 6-Max for the past like 3 days and here is a very unreliable early assessment.

1.5 K hands on normal tables = Running at -0.87 PT BB/100

2.5 K hands on MONSTER tables = Running at 15.72 PT BB/100

Obviously this is inconclusive over such a small sample....but damn does it seem to me that the Monster tables are softer. So far I'm quite happy to pay the extra rake.

P.S. I love you Trip and hope the sun is shining wherever you are.

[samsonite2100]

Why does everyone not play at Bodog

?

I guess the downsides are limited traffic and maxing out at three-tabling, but I'm w/ you. Bodog is the shit--worst players in the world and the unlimited reload.

[Cocco_Bill]

Bodog: soft games, slow software and only 3-tables at a time, has no 6-max on several levels. Conclusision, not a viable alternative for a serious player.

Party: Monster promotion is really terrible for lower stakes, still probably one of the best rooms for 400NL and above.

B2B: This network is almost dead and the games suck. I still do all the 5X bonuses though.

Pokerroom: Soft games, hard to multitable. I keep getting timed out. The Bet24 skin has an endless 9x bonus for us europeans though. High rake.

Pokerstars: Soft games, great software the real alternative to party poker. Too bad they don't have more bonuses or rakeback.

Unibet: Only allow Europeans, great software and quite soft games. Few bonuses but they have cashback which is about 20% rakeback.

Ultimatebet: dunno

Full Tilt: Would like to try it , heards its good.

Boss network: difficult to multitable, only allows 5 tables. The games used to be very soft but I don't know how its nowadays.

Prima: Haven't played there in a long time. The games used to be very beatable and should get softer whenUnibet joins them in September. Software is pretty good.

[Irisheyes]

Thanks for that Cocco. 2 more questions please:

Pokerroom has 5max tables, not 6max right?
And is there any of those sites where I could consistently get 8 400NL 6max tables?

[Cocco_Bill]

Thanks for that Cocco. 2 more questions please:

Pokerroom has 5max tables, not 6max right?
And is there any of those sites where I could consistently get 8 400NL 6max tables?

Prima and Pokerroom, I would be very impressed if you manage to 8-table 5-max on that software though.

[samsonite2100]

Bodog: soft games, slow software and only 3-tables at a time, has no 6-max on several levels. Conclusision, not a viable alternative for a serious player.

The problem w/ Bodog's software isn't that it's slow--it's that it's unreliable. It's actually one of the fastest interfaces out there.