Betting against a flush draw

[spoonitnow]

This HH was edited from a different thread.

Hero and Villian both start with $50 stacks, have $40 behind, blinds are $0.25/0.50, and they are alone in the hand on a 10-handed table.

Hero has position on Villian with Q, A.

Villian is probably on a flush draw.

The board is:
Q, 2, 5, 8 ($20.25)

Villian checks.

How much do we bet, and why?

[Wyvver]

What was the betting before that?

[IowaSkinsFan]

well if we assume hero is smart then we can trust his read of opp being probably on a flush draw.

[zook]

I usually bet $10 here to keep the pot size under control, deny odds to the flush draw and still encourage a call. If I know he's a chaser and will call $15 on a draw I'll bet that instead.

[Miffed22001]

stop his pot odds. gg chaser.

[BankItDrew]

Let's say you bet $10.
For him to call this bet and still make it a good move on his part, he'd have to get at least $20 more in on the river.
Villain calls and pot is now $40.
River is a
Villain value bets by betting half pot. Do you call the cheap river with the strong feeling he was on a draw? Probably not. Maybe.

To eliminate odds, simply follow through with the following calculations:

Correct turn bet = X

X> = (9/46)(Pot+Lowest stack)
= (.2)(20+40)
= $12

To eliminate implied odds, bet more than $12. Call any river.

[zook]

To eliminate implied odds, bet more than $12. Call any river.

I dunno. Always calling a river heart is only +EV if villain will bet KQ or QJ the same as he would a made flush. I'm fine with betting more on the turn, in fact hero should bet as much as he thinks villain will call with a draw, without pot committing himself (in case villain c/r's all-in with a set). Then he can re-evaluate on the river.

[freechus9]

Let's say you bet $10.
For him to call this bet and still make it a good move on his part, he'd have to get at least $20 more in on the river.
Villain calls and pot is now $40.
River is a
Villain value bets by betting half pot. Do you call the cheap river with the strong feeling he was on a draw? Probably not. Maybe.

To eliminate odds, simply follow through with the following calculations:

Correct turn bet = X

X> = (9/46)(Pot+Lowest stack)
= (.2)(20+40)
= $12

To eliminate implied odds, bet more than $12. Call any river.

It's actually any bet more than 15. 60:12 is 5:1, but a flush draw hitting is 4:1. A 15 dollar bet would make the odds 4:1, which is breakeven for a flush draw. So any bet more than 15 would give correct odds... I could be wrong?

[BankItDrew]

It's actually any bet more than 15. 60:12 is 5:1, but a flush draw hitting is 4:1. A 15 dollar bet would make the odds 4:1, which is breakeven for a flush draw. So any bet more than 15 would give correct odds... I could be wrong?

A flush draw isn't 4:1 because:
9 outs & 46 unknown cards = 9/46 = 0.18

Although there are 4 types of suits, you hold 4 of the 13 already.

[BankItDrew]

To eliminate implied odds, bet more than $12. Call any river.

I dunno. Always calling a river heart is only +EV if villain will bet KQ or QJ the same as he would a made flush. I'm fine with betting more on the turn, in fact hero should bet as much as he thinks villain will call with a draw, without pot committing himself (in case villain c/r's all-in with a set). Then he can re-evaluate on the river.

What I meant to say was that you should call any river if you are unsure as to what he has. If you know he has a flush, there's no sense in calling, even if he pushes the rest of his $2 stack into a pile of $96.