A bluff hitting?

[Peja]

Example:

Hole Cards: J 10 (suits dont matter)
Flop: J 2 4

You raised preflop late position, someone called. Now: He bets it as a bluff, and you call or reraise, w/e you choose, but he calls.

Turn: K

Now he bets harder...There is no reason to believe he has the king right? What if he was bluffing and now he has hit the king. He is justified in calling to show strength and if hit, a follow up bet would look like a continuation bet or bluff once again....

How do you guys avoid this or you dont lol??

One more Thing:

In my games, i encounter retards to put in a bet to steal blinds with a shit hand, I reraise with a decent hand, and they call. They call because they feel they have chips invested which is stupid to say the least unless the have connecters or other decent cards. When dealing with these types of people should i Raise harder to show i have strength, or smooth call hoping to hit or what? What is the best approach and why?

[DimitriT]

In your example, your JT is vulnerable to alot of hands. Don't raise it PF. The flop is OK but you could have kicker problems. I normally put in a 2/3 to full pot sized bet here. If a loose player calls and there are no apparent draws, I can assume he either has a J himself (in which case my kicker may be bad), he has hit the flop in some other way, he figures he is still ahead with his overcards, or he is setting up a steal, figuring you are just making a continuation bet. The latter scenario is unlikely unless you are dealing with an obvious maniac or someone who is capable of making complex moves. The K may have given him 2pr if he likes to play KX hands or TP if he likes to draw to his overcards or even an OESD (which he is semi-bluffing). The only thing you can do here is use your reads to put him on a tactic. If you think he is bluffing, call and show it down.

Note that since I play a tight game and only show down strong hands I don't have to worry about this as much. My opps know that if I bet the flop, I have hit it with TPTK or better (most of the time). By maintaining a tight image I can have more confidence that my opp. is holding a strong hand when they play back at me. If I play a LAG game where I'm seeing alot more flops and am making every probe and continuation bet I will then have to worry about opps calling me with bottom pair, or trying to push me off hands.

[a500lbgorilla]

if he raises preflop, you fold JT.

If he bets the flop, he could be cont betting with AK.

When the K falls and he continues to put the pressure on you, no reason to stay around. If he didn't have the K, he's probably bet around the same ammount as he did on the flop OR check.

-'rilla

[CFANG]

So one of the blinds has called a LP raise and now bets this flop. AK would have probably reraised preflop to end the hand then so as to not have to play out of position. The most likely hand i see playing this flop this way (unless your absolutely shure its a bluff, which you don't seem to be) is JQ KJ AJ. All these hands fit his betting pattern. If he was bluffing in the first place and caught your hand is weak to the point that almost anything he can be betting on the turn is beating you unless hs has something weird like A5 and thinks you're weak.

[Peja]

Maybe i gave a bad example. What if you have a good hand like a medium to high pocket pair. If he bets the flop, you reraise, and he calls, a K on the turn could be scary. On the other hand, he could have just been setting up a bluff. Is it better to just lay it down in this situation if he follows up with another bet and peg him later with a monster, or call and find out.

I encounter a lot of people who, when raising a pot as a bluff, seem to have trouble laying it down unless they are reraised a lot, and sometimes they have an overcard which ends up hitting even thought they played it like they were bluffing. Usually a card on the turn when raises on the flop occured, dont scare me that much especially if i did the raising, because why would he call my raise or reraise with just an overcard?

[Rondavu]

Sometimes you fold what seems to be the best hand with the intention of gaining a loose read on someone. If they continue to act erratic and/or overaggressive in other hands, then you have more info next time you hold something to take a stand with. If it turns out they play tight from then on, chances are they hit a lucky board and actually had you beat the first time, when you folded what "seemed" to be the best hand.

It's just part of the game. You show respect for players until they prove to be disrespectful.

last night I folded several hands to an aggressor before taking half his chips with a pair of threes. He manufactured a fantastic read for me that allowed me to give up on previous winning hands and still profit from him when my read solidified.

[a500lbgorilla]

you have 77

Flop comes T 8 4

PRFer bets and you call behind him not putting him on a T.

Turn comes a K and he fires again.

Is this what you mean?

I'll fold here more often than not unless I've seen them empty two barrels on a continuation bet (which I commonly do)

-'rilla

[PokerPatNEU]

If the hand goes the way rilla' described I might throw in a raise on the flop just to see if he means business. You have position on the turn so if he bets again he usually has your pair beat and you can feel pretty good about letting him take it down.

It takes one of two things to continue to play the majority of hands on the turn/river...A) A strong hand. or B) A strong read.

[Peja]

you have 77

Flop comes T 8 4

PRFer bets and you call behind him not putting him on a T.

Turn comes a K and he fires again.

Is this what you mean?

I'll fold here more often than not unless I've seen them empty two barrels on a continuation bet (which I commonly do)

-'rilla

That could be one, but better yet, lets say you have A 10 with that flop...What would you do then?

[a500lbgorilla]

you have 77

Flop comes T 8 4

PRFer bets and you call behind him not putting him on a T.

Turn comes a K and he fires again.

Is this what you mean?

I'll fold here more often than not unless I've seen them empty two barrels on a continuation bet (which I commonly do)

-'rilla

That could be one, but better yet, lets say you have A 10 with that flop...What would you do then?

AT makes no difference.

-'rilla

[Checkways]

This is a tougher question to answer than it is to play. The reason is because the answer depends a lot on the player and the stack sizes. So, let's assume that you just sat down at the table and you have no read. The next question is can you afford to get into a confrontation with this guy? If not, then this is an easy laydown. Your hand is not really that great anyway. The problem here is that JT is a hand that gets beaten by hands that people don't always raise. JQ being the obvious one. What makes it worse is that in a raised pot, YOU have the worst jack. All other Js beat you in a raised pot.

If you raised JT on the button, and the guy you're facing is a blind, then you're in serious trouble. Why? Because AJ in early postion will not reraise you. There are also many other big hands that people will just smooth call in early postion rather than reraise.

Furthermore, you can't ask your question on the turn without solving what was done on the flop. If you called his bet on the flop, now you're in a stickier situation. You have less information. If you raised on the flop (which I consider to be a better play since you're the pfr here) and he CALLS, then the K on the turn doesn't matter. Consider yourself beat until you find out that he's a very loose player.

I also like to think that good bluffs are winning hands. Just because I had a better hand, doesn't mean I deserve to win. So don't worry too much if they're putting a move on you. This can save you lots of money.

[DancesWithWinnebagos]

Isn't this one of those cases where you have a plan with JT0 (flop the straight or an OESD) and the flop has missed you entirely?

Sure, you got a piece of it, but you didn't hit what you wanted.
The K is a bad card to see; hell, the J isn't the spiffiest card in the world to see.

This hand is one that I have to be super tight with (like all connectors and low pockets) and understand that if I didn't catch the piece I wanted, I should be able to let go easily.