Please help me with this..

[Lcplinfalt]

In Limit Holdem you can count outs and compare to how the pot lies to conclude if it is +EV to call and use Pot equity to decide between calling or raising. (please corect me if i am wrong in any of this) If I have 8 outs ie. OESD and the pot is laying 12/1 my call would be profitable in the long run if the draw was to the nuts. (for this i assume it is) However in NL a pot sized bet before my turn to act would make the call -EV no matter? Ex. 8 outs is about 10/1 for improvin. Assume a theoretical pot of $20 with a raise of $20. (10* -$20)+(1*+$40)=-$160.
I know this is basic poker math but it is one of my weak points at this point. In case i didnt write the math problem corectly i mean 10 times i do not improve and lose my $20 contribution on that bet for a negative $200 swing. The 1 Time i do conect i win the $40 pot. I know that this does not include implied odds and i know that at this point alot would be dependent on whether my opponent had me covered. Any help greatly appreciated here. Again if i am wrong please correct me here!

8 outs is about one to five to improve on the next card

but if you see the next card free, it's one to two
but you might not see the next card free


There's also implied odds... if you hit your straight on the turn, will he bet into you?

[Lcplinfalt]

your right for some reason i got 4 outs stuck in my mind. thx

[Rondavu]

Implied odds are everything in no limit. You have to not only have the right pot odds, but also be sure your opponent won't close up the betting when you hit your hand. Drawing to a flush is a good example. Unless you have position, you can never really disguise your draw and get payed off. Even if you have position, you have to raise the draw to disguise it, so often flush draws are -EV unless you can get your opponent to fold while you are drawing by raising the pot with position.

one gappers and two gappers that hit a straight have excellent implied odds because they are so hidden. On these draws you can invest more than the pot odds dictate since the chance you will get payed off is excellent, especially against more than one opponent.