First SNG Results....Feedback Welcome

[CharlieMurphy]

Hello. I'm new to the forum. Been playing hold 'em online for about 4 or 5 months. For whatever reasons (perceived 'fear' of no limit being one of them), I started out at low stakes limit. Moved from .5/1 to 1/2 to 2/4 which I have been playing most recently. I've found that there seems to be money to be made at these tables, but the main mistake I have made thus far would be to cash out while I'm ahead rather than try to build my bankroll. I would probably have a decent ($500-$1000) bankroll if I hadn't taken this approach. Water under the bridge.

Mainly what I've grown to not like about limit are the swings. I play fairly tight but regardless have experienced swings of significantly up/significantly down. I thibk that is what everyone here refers to as variance? I could be wrong about that. Anyway, in the course of trying to become a student of the game and reading a lot int his forum, it seems like NL is where I really need to be. So I sat down at some $5 SNGs (5) last night. I finished 5th or 6th in the first. I didn't think that was too bad -- and I got over the "i've never played this before." Then I take 3rd, 3rd, 2nd and fifth in the next four. Playing mainly tight from the get go dependent upon position, of course. I found myself getting down to the last 5 or so and picking my spots from there.

In any event, a couple of situations that came up in the 5th place finish, and then the 2nd place finish. I'm short stack with 5 remaining in the first instance. Get AKo mid position and go all-in. Called pre-flop. He has pocket 10s. No AK comes on the board. I'm done. I was comfortable with my play there despite losing the hand. Thoughts?

The I'm heads up with about even stacks in another tournament. AKo again. I'm already thinking all-in, and we trade raises until I go all-in. He has AA. I figured, what are the chances? But, it happened. I was happy to finish second anyway. Didn't rattle me at all. I figured heads up AKo is an awesome hand, I'll take my chances. Is there any reason to believe that in that situation I would ever consider folding heads up? I have the hand histories of these tourneys if anyone is interested in analyzing them with me.

So, like I said, I'm new to the forum. Going to try to build a bankroll from SNGs from this point forward. Would be interested in getting some general thoughts from those a little more experienced about SNGs as a way to build bankroll...i.e. at what rate should I expect it to grow in $5 SNGs when playing a couple a night and knowing I am at least capable enough to finish in the money in 3 of my 1st 5. I have about $100. At what point do I go to the $10 SNGs? $500?

Thanks in advance.

[biondino]

I was doing what I considered to be pretty well in $5 SNGs, and I was bringing in an average profit of $2 a game. Having moved to cash ring games after a couple of months of only playing tourneys, the excitement of winning (or losing) $30 per hand is a bit more gripping - with a tourney you are committing so much time for what may, on average, be a win, but even at best it'll only be $19.

But it's a great way to improve (some of) your poker skills without a lot of risk. If you're enjoying it, then that's all that matters!

[EricE]

Welcome to the forums.
Read the sticky at the top on bankroll management. That will give you a good idea of when you should move up. Lots of people move up earlier but you should know what the risks are.

Swings with NL will likely be more than Limit. That is why 20-30x your buy in is nessasary. It helps prevent tilt since you are only risking a small portion of your bankroll at any one time.

[Aces]

First SNG: AK is obviously a good hand to push with. Depending on how short-stacked you were or how high the blinds were, you could also have just raised a good amount but you most likely were going down with this hand.

2nd SNG: You didn't say who started the raising but after being reraised once you should probably consider just calling. There's a good chance they have AA/KK(making them a huge favorite), another PP(making them a slight favorite), or AK. Edit: Ignore this, was thinking HU at table w/other players.

Even though these are the hands you went out on, there were probably some other key hands so it's hard to evaluate based soley on the info you've given.

Congrats on finishing ITM in 3 of 5, but that's pretty meaningless as to how you will do long term. If just starting you may want to read everything on this site and some of the recommended books as well. $100 is a bit low to be playing $10 SNGs, you might condsider playing $5(make sure it's a $5+.50) while you're getting your feet wet. At this point the experience should be more important then making money. There are also sites with SNGs under $5.

Good luck and welcome...

[CharlieMurphy]

Thanks everyone. I have to start somewhere -- and there is soooooo much to read/learn. I'm going to try to dedicate myself to reading as much as possible within the forum topics, and of course gain experience by playing in tourneys or ring games.

One thing with regard to the swings...I switched from the ring NL games to the SNGs because the little time I did spend in the NL ring games I wasn't making any progress $$ wise. I wasn't losing much either. Maybe just a bad run of cards (I really felt like I didn't get any real playable cards for eons)...or maybe just playing too tight? Should I loosen up my game in the NL ring games versus the limit ring games?

Thanks again for the insight.

[drmcboy]

At low stakes I think you're fine never folding an AK heads up pre flop. Even at higher stakes...

There's a good chance they have AA/KK

makes me LOL. people will raise and re raise with any pair HU, and aces far less than AK. If someone picks up AA/KK the same hand I have AK HU, unless they slow play they are getting all my chips.

[EricE]

“Should I loosen up my game in the NL ring games versus the limit ring games?”

Loose v.s. tight in micro limits is really your call. Tight will win you $ and be better practice for higher limits. Playing loose against these loose players can win you more $ though. But only if you avoid the pitfalls of playing loose…that is, know when to fold. Going to the showdown (too often) with middle or lower pair will cost you and make up for any difference in playing loose. If you want to try it, loosen up in LP (late position) only and see if it works out for you. Currently I am playing almost anything LP and playing any PP (for set on the flop only) and any suited connectors (if able to limp into flop) in any position (on top of the group 0-6 hands). With the suited connectors I’ll only see small raises to see the flop and I’ll dump it if I don’t hit a four flush or 4 of a straight on the flop. It’s working out pretty well so far. I was up $9 last night with a $2 buy in. A lot of that was from two hands that I would not have played had I been playing tight. I hit a 4 of a kind with one person all-in against me and I also had a nut flush with two people all-in against me. That was luck though…We’ll see if I can make a profit for the third night in a row (tonight).

Note: I can’t claim a lot of experience. I have only been playing real money for a little over a week.

[Aces]

At low stakes I think you're fine never folding an AK heads up pre flop. Even at higher stakes...

There's a good chance they have AA/KK

makes me LOL. people will raise and re raise with any pair HU, and aces far less than AK. If someone picks up AA/KK the same hand I have AK HU, unless they slow play they are getting all my chips.

Misread, was thinking heads up w/1 other player at a table w/multiple players. HU w/2 left, you're right you can't lay down AK.

[JeffreyGB]

Moved from .5/1 to 1/2 to 2/4 which I have been playing most recently.

I would probably have a decent ($500-$1000) bankroll if I hadn't taken this approach.

Swings are normal. You'll see them in any type of play. Playing outside your bankroll results in them hurting you. Bad. That's what you're running in to. You should have over $1k to be playing at 2/4. The general rule is 300 BB for limit. Read 'rilla's bankroll management thread in the hold'em strat section (it's stickied).

[JeffreyGB]

Regarding some of your other points/questions:

A good rule is to move up when you have 20 buyins for the next level. So for moving to $10+$1, you want $220. You should be well covered for the swings you hit at the $5+$.5 level, but if you drop below $50 and don't want to redeposit, you might think about moving down. UB and Pokerstars both offer varieties of $1+$.1 games, should you need them (but hopefully you won't). I'll also second the guy above who said to avoid $5+$1 games. There's no reason to pay that extra $.5 in rake, and it will add up (after 11 tournaments, it's cost you the price of your 12th one!).

Regarding the slow cards in your ring game, it's very possible that you just hit a run of bad cards. It's just as possible that you were playing out of your element and made some mistakes. There's really no way for us to know without having more information. "Was I playing too tight?" is impossible to answer when we don't even know what hands you played/folded.

Both plays in your post were decent at face value (without knowing stuff like stack sizes, position, having reads, etc.).

[TLR]

Hand #1: You mentioned you were short stack but did not mention by how much.
When you go AI with AK with 5 players in one of two thinks will usually happen:
1. You will pick up the blinds
2. You will get called by a pocket pair, Ak and rarely AQ or lower.
So most of the time you will go to a coinflip or worse (AA, KK)

I would rather throw in a 3bb-4bb raise and hope to get called by a weaker hand, if someone reraises me I will call.

Hand#2: No way I will fold AKo preflop on headsup. You are most likely ahead.

Welcome to the forum, I am sure you will get tons of good information here.

5 Sngs are a very small sample but it sounds you are on the right course