How to play Q9 on Flop of QQ2 rainbow?

[Iconoclastic]

Freeroll MTT. Blinds still small relative to stacks. You have a good hand but it's not the nuts, and the board is an action killer. How can you squeeze some expectation value out of this situation?

Check:
Benefits- Not committing any chips. May induce small bluff.
Drawbacks- Giving a free card.
Conclusion- Do the chips I make from getting someone to bluff make up for the times I get drawn out?

Bet small:
Benefits- Gets calling stations to come along and give me a few chips. I won't lose too many chips if I get reraised.
Drawbacks- Makes it likely an Aggressive player will reraise me. Then it becomes a Push/Fold situation and that gamble early in a MTT is not profitable.
Conclusion- Do the chips I get from calling stations make up for the times I get reraised and fold?

Bet pot:
Benefits- Shutting out PP.
Drawbacks- The rare times I get reraised I'll lose more chips.
Conclusion- When called, tough to know where I stand.

Push:
Benefits- No more tough decisions.
Drawbacks- Only get called by better hands.
Conclusion- Clearly the worst option.

Would anyone play the hand differently depend on position, like doing A in EP but B in LP?

[FyrFytr998]

Well given the scenario. I'd push for the simple reason I'm either beat or not. Why give someone a chance to chase you down? It's only a freeroll. Also, you just might get someone to call with their drawing hands anyways. They're also thinking screw it it's only a freeroll.

At a money tourney. I'll try the aggressive approach (3xBB) and fold if reraised. Only to see how much gamble there is at the table.

Just my two cents. Maybe a reason why I only do marginally at MTT's

[Staresy]

I don't know, I might be tempted to give a free card here because u have got the deck a bit crippled. The only real scare hand I can think here at this stage is someone having the other Q w/ stronger kicker.

Maybe I am missing something here, but someone is going to need.....
(a) two runners to catch a str8,
(b) two suited to flush (and that assumes it doesn't fill your boat) or
(c) if they are holding a mid-pair (I'm assuming no-one has got a power-pack otherwise it would have got raised pre-flop?!) they are looking to catch a two-outer.

If either (a) or (b) starts to take shape on the turn, u can then bet to make them pay for it (with the back up of having 10 outs to beat a str8 or flush). If (c) comes off, I think u just have to take it on the chin and pay them off.

I think that's what I would do. Then again, what the f**k do I know?!!?!!!

[r8ed]

Bet 3/4 pot. If everyone folds, you just take the money and use it to pay your blinds. If somebody calls, i would bet the turn harder. You don't want somebody that has a pair in their hand to get a boat. If they reraise, go all-in. It's a freeroll and you have the best hand anyway. You will get their money, a player out, respect and a large stack. OR if you lose, you saved yourself 2+ hours.

[Demiparadigm]

Nothing would make me lay this down. If there are multiple players, I would try for a check raise and raise the pot if there is a bet. If the check goes around, I wound bet the pot on the turn, and if I get raised, call. This is one of the only situations where I would check-call on the river. A bet will probably make a worse hand fold, and a better hand raise which you would then probably be pot committed and call.

[Iconoclastic]

Nothing would make me lay this down. If there are multiple players, I would try for a check raise and raise the pot if there is a bet. If the check goes around, I wound bet the pot on the turn, and if I get raised, call. This is one of the only situations where I would check-call on the river. A bet will probably make a worse hand fold, and a better hand raise which you would then probably be pot committed and call.

If your check raise gets reraised what do you do. Medium trips are not the nuts (higher trips, FH). What kind of hand would reraise a check raise?

[JeffreyGB]

If your check raise gets reraised what do you do. Medium trips are not the nuts (higher trips, FH). What kind of hand would reraise a check raise?

I agree with Demi completely here. I'd call or push on the re-raise. No higher trips exist on this board and figuring that they could have KK or AA and be pulling this is little different than them having any other pp with 2 outs. I expect them to have some pocket pair or a 2. I expect they are putting your check raise on a bluff and trying to challenge you to prove it. You have it, so play accordingly.

- Jeffrey

[Demiparadigm]

The only hands that have you beat are:
Q with a higher kicker (unlikely since it would be the case Q- There is 1 Q left in 47 unseen cards, so almost 5% that your opponent was dealt it. Also, you expect a fold from any Q with a kicker less than 10, so even if someone was dealt the Q, about a 60% chance they folded it.)

Q2...the "nuts" (very unlikely, I won't usually play Q9, let alone that crap)

or pocket 2s. ( 1:220 that a player has 2,2. Times 10 players 1:22 or another almost 5% I personally fold 2,2 if I don't think I'll get 4 way action in NL, or 5-6 way in limit.)

So, If you get reraised, push. you'll lose at most 10% of the time, but hey, that's no limit.
You still have 4 outs against 2,2 (17% chance of winning) or 3 against another Q (13%)
You could get called by a second best hand, such as AA or KK.
I will sometimes (rarely) reraise a check raise representing the nuts with as little as a pocket pair, depending on how I read my opponent.

[dsaxton]

The only hands that have you beat are:
Q with a higher kicker (unlikely since it would be the case Q- There is 1 Q left in 47 unseen cards, so almost 5% that your opponent was dealt it. Also, you expect a fold from any Q with a kicker less than 10, so even if someone was dealt the Q, about a 60% chance they folded it.)

Q2...the "nuts" (very unlikely, I won't usually play Q9, let alone that crap)

or pocket 2s. ( 1:220 that a player has 2,2. Times 10 players 1:22 or another almost 5% I personally fold 2,2 if I don't think I'll get 4 way action in NL, or 5-6 way in limit.)

So, If you get reraised, push. you'll lose at most 10% of the time, but hey, that's no limit.
You still have 4 outs against 2,2 (17% chance of winning) or 3 against another Q (13%)
You could get called by a second best hand, such as AA or KK.
I will sometimes (rarely) reraise a check raise representing the nuts with as little as a pocket pair, depending on how I read my opponent.

I don't agree at all that if your check-raise is reraised that you should reraise all-in. Without any information about an opponents hand, it is of course very unlikely that you are beaten, but once your opponent has bet, and then raised once you represented 3 queens, it is extremely unlikely that you have the best hand. You can essentially only beat a bluff in this situation. The person most likely has queens with a better kicker or already has the full house, the most likely of the two being queens with a better kicker since a full house would almost certaintly slow-play this on the flop.

I think the proper play in this situation is to check-raise on the flop and represent the set in order to see how your opponents react to this information. If you are then raised, you should either call or fold, and if you call, be very reluctant to put much more money into the pot unless you make your full house. If no one bets on the flop, then make a sizable bet on the turn, again showing caution if anyone else in the pot appears strong.

[Darklord]

It seems like a really tight play to me to fold a set of queens. I think Demiparadigm was right about the odds being with you completely in this situation. I geuss there are a few signs that may suggest a beat by a higher kicker, like a raise before the flop or being up against and INCREDIBLY tight player. But a bluff or even a bet on the second pair seems more likely. If your not going to play this hand, your going to be waiting for a long time to pick up any pots and most players will probably get an easy read on you for being extremely conservative.

[Cavalry21]

First Post, been reading the site a couple weeks, alot of good information, I thought this would be a good place to jump in as I had a similar situation last night.

Playing in a weekly home game. $20 entry 18 people @ 2 tables. Starting with $1k in chips 10/20 dbl every 30 mins. This hand came up with me in the BB on the 2nd orbit lvl 2 blinds 20/40.

Chip count Me (BB) ~$800
UTG +1 ~2500 (new guy, but seemed to play loose)
UTG +3 ~ 1300 (maniac)

on BB with K5o, 5 limpers, I check the BB.

Flop: KK6 rainbow.

UTG+1 bets 60
UTG +3 raises to 100
Me re-raise to 200.

UTG+1 &3 both call, other limpers fold.

Turn = 7 suit matches a king.

UTG+1 leads 100, call, call

River = J, no flush

UTG+1 pushes, fold, fold, UTG +1 shows 44. (UTG+3 said he was on a draw, maniac would raise and call with a backdoor flush)

where was my mistake? not a big enough reraise on the flop? Should I push on the turn? (I would have pushed here heads up, but not against 2 players, I assumed at least one had the last K with a higher kicker)

[cartilago77]

Depends on my position.

If I am in early, I will check it and hope that someone else tries to represent it and buy the pot.

If I am in late position, I will bet like I am trying to steal it and hope that someone with a pocket pair or that caught the low board card will think they have the best hand and get aggressive with it.

[JeffreyGB]

Calvary, you definitely should have reraised big on the turn. Probably would have taken it down there, but either way, you need to make people with a straight draw call against the odds if they call (as over time you will win from them doing this even if something like this happens were they make their hand on occasion).

- Jeffrey