Pushing early... am I crazy?

[DWDuck]

My buddy and I are arguing about a play I made last night. On the first hand of a $10 SNG on party, I am dealt TT on the button. UTG+1 raises 30 (blinds are 10/15, everybody starts with 800), and gets 4 callers behind him. Going through my options, I can either push, raise, call or fold. Obviously I don't fold it. A raise may work, isolating a couple players, but the odds of an overcard are decent, and that would hurt early in the SNG. A call is even worse I think, almost requiring a set to be strong. I tried the push. My reasoning? Most likely (in my eyes) I'll fold everybody and pick up a neat 165 to start the tourny. It's possible I'll get a caller, but with them holding (my guess) Ax or a lower PP based on the weak betting, my chances of winning are pretty good. There's also a small chance I'll be out on the first hand.

Some questions on this:

In this type of scenario, how often do you think I'll be called? My guess was between 20-30%, probably closer to 20. My friend things it's closer to 50/50. Who's crazy?

Is this lunacy on the first hand? Is it worth the risk to build up a bit at the start?

Do you think this will help/hurt your table image? On one hand, people might be more willing to call you later, making it tough to steal pots. On the other hand, people might be more willing to bet on your monsters.

I can see both sides... tough to decide. Thoughts?

Although it doesn't matter much in the discussion, the table folded and I ended up winning that particular SNG. The story may be different if I do it tomorrow though... who knows.

Thanks.

Gern
"If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing"

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[r8ed]

If you lose, you start another sitNgo. If they call and you win, you have a huge advantage at the table and should be in the top 2 if you play correctly.

[Sed]

I think the first couple hands you run a slightly higher risk of getting called by some gambler with ace-paint or Axs. Probably not as high as 50/50 but higher than later on in the tourney. Either way its a good move, TT is a tough hand to play multi-way with no flop help if overs fall. You definitely didn't want to go into that hand with 5 others...

- sed

[AllinLife]

Consider:

1) UTG minraise is quite often "I need action" bet
2) you have 800 @ level 1
3) you have 800 @ level 1

at times when you get called by UTG you will at best get a coinflip vs AK/AQ or huge underdog vs QQ/ KK/ AA , possibly JJ

of course this is party so anything can happen...you will get called by worse hands at times, but I don't see 99 / A9 or worse calling here enough to make this a correct play



when you call good things happen

1) when you flop a set, you have position on preflop raiser and field of 4 to trap between

2) when overcard flop, you can often just fold (MUCH loser risk)

3) you have position!! so if board comes 9 high, you have good chance of having best hand/ bet 2/3 pot and pick it up w/o much risk


if pot was something like 250 I'd push but I think 165 isn't something that's worth risking your whole tournament for. remember that first half of SNG is surviving until level 4 on PP. on level 4, this would be much easier push, but at level 1 with 800 chips? I don't think so

[JeffreyGB]

I think that early on you are more likely to be called than later into it - since people take pride in "busting the maniac." That said, I think the push is fine here. I probably wouldn't do it, but that's just me. I'd more likely bet half my stack or so (enough in my mind to get most to fold, and not so much that if I get a caller and lose I'm out).

- Jeffrey

[Demiparadigm]

I don't think you will get called with worse hands by any reasonable player. If you get called, you are a coin flip against AK, maybe AQ or a big dog against the higher pairs. I would probably raise the pot in this situation. 10s are not worth gambling the tourney on.
I don't think you'll get called even as much as 20% of the time, and if you do, chances are you're beat.

[Hubris1]

Would have bet the pot, pushing with 1010 that early is just inasnity in my opinion, best case scenario you pick up 165 in chips, worst case scenario you get called, and you really don't wanna get called. Even fish are only gonna play a couple of paints, and you don't want a coin toss in the first hand of the tourney.

[Wet_DreaMer]

Great play, no doubt.

You will be called about 25% of the time, i would estimate.

That 25% will usually be:
a) A fish that cant believe they got an ace in the very first hand and arent gonna fold it now. Especially when its suited! Chance of a flush! :)
b) An underpair that puts you on AK/AQ and figures your outs are tainted and gives them anywhere up to a 65% chance to win the hand.
c) An overpair that was the first caller/not yet played and is not gonna fold. This would be incredibly rare and even when it happens you have a 10+% to win the hand.

Your image will be one of fear which is great, and your ROI/hr (is that right?) will fly up.

Push every time.

[AllinLife]

Great play, no doubt.

You will be called about 25% of the time, i would estimate.

That 25% will usually be:
a) A fish that cant believe they got an ace in the very first hand and arent gonna fold it now. Especially when its suited! Chance of a flush!
b) An underpair that puts you on AK/AQ and figures your outs are tainted and gives them anywhere up to a 65% chance to win the hand.
c) An overpair that was the first caller/not yet played and is not gonna fold. This would be incredibly rare and even when it happens you have a 10+% to win the hand.

Your image will be one of fear which is great, and your ROI/hr (is that right?) will fly up.

Push every time.

do you even play sng?

[gregor]

tough to call a substantial raise with the moderate PP, 1 in 9 odds to hit the flop, chances are an over will come, and you'll fold....


go all in, could get a guy with a A-(rag) to chase. 10sng aren't the best of competition....

there's always an ahole that goes all in first hand.....

i'd probably flip the guy in the situation...

[gregor]

Would have bet the pot, pushing with 1010 that early is just inasnity in my opinion, best case scenario you pick up 165 in chips, worst case scenario you get called, and you really don't wanna get called. Even fish are only gonna play a couple of paints, and you don't want a coin toss in the first hand of the tourney.

why not? losing in the first hand vs 10th hand or last out of the money is the same thing...its about making $ not about feeling like you received enough entertainment for your entry fee.....

[gregor]

Would have bet the pot, pushing with 1010 that early is just inasnity in my opinion, best case scenario you pick up 165 in chips, worst case scenario you get called, and you really don't wanna get called. Even fish are only gonna play a couple of paints, and you don't want a coin toss in the first hand of the tourney.

best case is that he's on 99 and has the same idea you had.....

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[lolzzz_321]

Party SNG, I can see you getting called 50% of the time.

You can probably play like a rock though and put your chips in when you are more ahead. A huge stack advantage is nice, but can easily be lost when you decide to put your money in again on a coinflip.

[Wet_DreaMer]

do you even play sng?

Yes. I do well in them and over half the people that responded here agreed with me. If you see a problem in my logic be sure to point it out.

You call. The board brings one overcard and its checked to you. What now?
You call. The board is 9 high, you bet big and get checkraised all in. What now?
You call. You hit your set but as it is a 10 there is an obvious straight/straight draw/flush/flush draw on the board, there is alot of betting before you. What now?


By calling you havent isolated anyone. 99% of the time because you havent reduced the players in the hand, someone will hit their low 2 pair, or their overcard (JQKA) or their straight or even their flush and you just lost a big blind for nothing. If your gonna play it that weak why not just fold? Save yourself some chips for the 4th round.

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