AA gone horribly wrong

[ChezJ]

at least i lost the bare minimum here.....


Hand #47527267 at table: Table TH256
Started: Wed May 04 19:34:18 2005

albatros posts the large blind $0.25
ja posts the small blind $0.12

ChezJ: A, A

Pre-flop:

Peick: Fold
ChezJ: Raise $3.00
kasparov: Fold
zebra13: Call $3.00
SilverL8: Fold
canon20D: Fold
box18: Call $3.00
ja: Fold
albatros: Fold

Flop (Board: J, 9, T):

ChezJ: Check
zebra13: Check
box18: Check

Turn (Board: J, 9, T, 5):

ChezJ: Check
zebra13: Check
box18: Check

River (Board: J, 9, T, 5, 8):

ChezJ: Check
zebra13: Bet $8.25
box18: Fold
ChezJ: Fold

ChezJ says "aces"

zebra13 shows Q Q, straight flush

[SmackinYaUp]

Nice lay down. Must have been a real tough decision

[Tsenister]

Correct me if im wrong but wouldnt a 6h beat him? so its not really a hard bet to pass on is it on the river?

[ChezJ]

the means he's jokin'

i'm just glad i didn't have red aces!!!

[dsaxton]

I know this isn't the purpose of the thread, but I don't think you should be raising so much with A-A preflop. Not only are you telling your opponents that you have a big pair, you're telling them when you don't.

[allLiving]

Raising that much preflop is a terrific play dude. Not only are you enticing people to gamble with you, sometimes people have wierd mental thoughts that say, "Oh he's raising big, he must have SHIT!" Also alot of times you'll get AK-AJ to go over the top, along with KK and QQ... Good move.

[dsaxton]

Raising that much preflop is a terrific play dude. Not only are you enticing people to gamble with you, sometimes people have wierd mental thoughts that say, "Oh he's raising big, he must have SHIT!" Also alot of times you'll get AK-AJ to go over the top, along with KK and QQ... Good move.

What?

No one is going to think he has shit, they're going to think he has Q-Q, K-K or A-A. This is problematic for a few reasons. You're telling your opponents to play more cautiously with marginal hands, how to take your money if they outflop you, and also that they can pick up your money preflop when you make smaller raises. Players with Q-Q and J-J may just call preflop rather than raise, and players with K-Q, Q-J and other weak high card hands will often fold right there. Players with small and middle pairs will probably call, but now they know how to bust you if they flop a set.

Raising that much preflop is a terrific play dude. Not only are you enticing people to gamble with you, sometimes people have wierd mental thoughts that say, "Oh he's raising big, he must have SHIT!" Also alot of times you'll get AK-AJ to go over the top, along with KK and QQ... Good move.

What?

No one is going to think he has shit, they're going to think he has Q-Q, K-K or A-A. This is problematic for a few reasons. You're telling your opponents to play more cautiously with marginal hands, how to take your money if they outflop you, and also that they can pick up your money preflop when you make smaller raises. Players with Q-Q and J-J may just call preflop rather than raise, and players with K-Q, Q-J and other weak high card hands will often fold right there. Players with small and middle pairs will probably call, but now they know how to bust you if they flop a set.

You're missing one important thing.

People are idiots.

Yes they will reraise you with their QQ/JJ/KQ, no they won't put reads on you. The average player is not an FTR regular, therefore minraising trying to entice a reraise here is not necessarily a bad play. Although I try to keep my raises more standard than extravagant. But Chez's minraise is not bad here.

[dalecooper]

Gotta agree with saxton - you're better off raising a standard amount with your big pairs and saving the unusual aggression for post-flop play (assuming you still think you're ahead). Raising big before the flop can sometimes have good results against absolute fish, but if you run into a decent player you're begging to get broke... not only that, there's a good chance you'll be pot-committed because of the large pot and the amount you've already put into it, and if your opponent flops something good you'll invariably pay him off. I'd rather raise smaller and treat those hands for what they are: good starting hands that I can comfortably fold if an opponent goes raise-crazy.

[dsaxton]

You're missing one important thing.

People are idiots.

Yes they will reraise you with their QQ/JJ/KQ, no they won't put reads on you. The average player is not an FTR regular, therefore minraising trying to entice a reraise here is not necessarily a bad play. Although I try to keep my raises more standard than extravagant. But Chez's minraise is not bad here.

He didn't raise the minimum, he raised to *12 times* the big blind.

And usually it's not a good idea to play under the assumption that your opponent is an idiot.

[Greedo017]

bet the flop.

[Element187]

should have folded preflop, you should have known 4 hearts would come out when you have black aces.

also since there is 4 to the straight flush, i would move all in on the river to scare off the Q of hearts and the ace of hearts.

You're missing one important thing.

People are idiots.

Yes they will reraise you with their QQ/JJ/KQ, no they won't put reads on you. The average player is not an FTR regular, therefore minraising trying to entice a reraise here is not necessarily a bad play. Although I try to keep my raises more standard than extravagant. But Chez's minraise is not bad here.

He didn't raise the minimum, he raised to *12 times* the big blind.

And usually it's not a good idea to play under the assumption that your opponent is an idiot.

My bad!

I'm not referring to assumptions, I'm just saying that if ChezJ did minraise here (he didn't, my bad), it would probably be because he did have a read on the guy(s) that he(they) was(were) idiot(s).

[ManhattanMan]

People are definitely idiots. Last night, in a multi table tournament, I was dealt KK. Two people go all in before me, so I layed it down. As it turned out, one guy had TT, and another had something like AQ. Suffice it say, I'd have one a ridiculously large amount of chips if I had played it.

Maybe I overthought it, and should have assumed nobody had AA, but I don't know. Heads up, I think laying down the KK would have been dumb, but with two callers, it seems like it's too much of a chance to lose your stack on. What do you think?

[ChezJ]

in this particular situation, the table was indeed full of idiots and i was raising $2-$3 pre flop with a variety of hands and still getting plenty of callers. anything less would not have any effect whatsoever. $3 was on the high end of my raising range but i knew i'd still get called, as i did. if for no other reason, to bust the "big stack bully" which i had become.

in retrospect i should have limp-reraised all-in... but i'm sure the QQ would have called me if i did that, then i would have been fucked real good. i have been called AI preflop by QQ with AA in my hand twice in the past week alone.

ChezJ

[m3laNcholy]

I am playing $50 NL at absolute (blinds $0.1-0.25) so I am always raising to $1 wheather I have AA KK AK 67s in position or I am stealing. Ecxeption is I hold AA/KK/QQ late position and there are 5-6 limpers. Here I raise a little more (like to $1.5) cause for 3BB more they might all call and I dont want my AA cracked in a 6-7 way pot. What do you think of that (the second part)? Could they get reads on me and fold when I have premium hands in these situations?

[AvatarKava]

What do you think of that (the second part)? Could they get reads on me and fold when I have premium hands in these situations?

At that point, you don't care about the reads - you need to limit the field to protect your hand. Why give them a free or cheap chance to crack you?

[face]

Doesn't a standard raise usually get adjusted for the number of limpers, regardless of how strong your hand is? I usually just add the limpers up,
(e.g., 6 limpers at .25/.50 = 1.50) and add that to my usual raise, or 1.50, leading me to raise 3.00 with AA or KQs or whatever I'm raising with.