FAO: Profitable Poker Players

[DogOnMySide]

Okay, who here turns a consistent (well, you know what I mean - consistent for poker) profit from ring games?

Winning hands is in some ways the easy bit... converting those winning hands into a steady increase in my bankroll seems the hard part.

If you're in this category of PPP's (profitable poker players) then... would you care to share your strategy for this?

- Do you play for a set time and then leave the table no matter what your stack is?
- Do you play until you have doubled up?
- Do you have a specific "i will leave the table when i have $X" rule? And if so, do you stick to it religiously?

I suppose quitting while you're ahead is vital, but it's those times when you're usually playing well.



I'm posting this in frustration of being at ~$60 in $25NL last night and eventually leaving the table with $26. Dealt A3 in big blind, flop came A63... someone else had limped with 63o... turn was a 6... i was being too aggressive.... oh dear. I WISH I'D QUIT WHEN I WAS AHEAD!!!


So - do you have any rules that YOU play by?

[stewartkev]

Not been playing long but I leave when any of these criteria are met:

1. I tilt
2. I am playing poorly for whatever reason, i.e. my mind isn't on the game
3. Table conditions get poor, i.e. players I can't get reads on, too many maniacs, not enough maniacs, lots of small buy-ins, etc

Always take your A-game to the table and you should be okay. Take regular breaks and PAY ATTENTION! I've managed to win consistently well, albeit at low stakes, since I moved from tourney to ring by using these rules. I would also emphasise finding a table which suits your style. I play LAggy so 6-max tables are a must for me.

[journey075]

i have to say i have a bad mentality when it comes to this. i always concentrate on my poker when im playing, but if ive ever doubled up (unless im really playing well) i consider myself satisfied and i leave. if im playing quite well, ill leave after tripling up.

im sure its a poor mindset, but its left me with consistent winnings at 100NL fwiw.

[DogOnMySide]

stewartkev - interesting. you're not looking at your current chip situation, but at your mental state. trouble is i dont think you need to be "on tilt, or playing poorly, or at a bad table" to lose a chunk of profit and 'waste' an hour's play. A bad call, or a player calling your made hand with terrible odds and hitting his drawing hand will decimate your stack, even if you were playing well.

journey075 - quitting as soon as you double is something i often think of doing, but don't, because i'm enjoying the game.

Is it better to:
Buy in with $25, double to $50, quit and rebuy on another table with $25 - keeping your profit
or...
Buy in with $25, double to $50, and keep playing with a bigger stack - more leverage, more risk

[Rondavu]

One thing that often happens to me, is when I build a big stack I loosen up a bit and don't realize it. I'll limp K9 offsuit and Q8 offsuit. Junk like that in last position. Then I get dominated by a QJo early position limper.

If you ask me though, at a no limit table your profit should increase the longer you sit with the same people. Repore is everything. Figure out who you can push around, and figure out who pushes so you can trap them. Trap the same pushy character a couple times and a fantastic thing happens. He pushes everyone else around but you. He'll start checking through on missed boards in duel pots with you. You basically force a read. These are a couple reasons you should make more money the longer you sit at a table.

[a500lbgorilla]

I used to play short sessions of 6max. Now, I play much longer sessions of full table. I only quit when I feel my concentration is broken.

-'rilla

[drmcboy]

A bad call, or a player calling your made hand with terrible odds and hitting his drawing hand will decimate your stack, even if you were playing well.

Sounds like when you get a big stack you start playing scared... if that's the case you should get up for sure. What difference does it make if you get drawn out on with a big stack vs getting drawn out on when you just sat down? Sure if you both have big stacks there is more risk, but you want other big stacks making dumb calls against you, that is how you make money.

[dsaxton]

If you ask me though, at a no limit table your profit should increase the longer you sit with the same people. Repore is everything.

Unless you're assuming your opponents are completely unobservant, you can expect them to be reacting to your play the same way you're reacting to theirs, can't you?

[Element187]

never leave the table when your running good.

leave when you are getting beat like a red headed step child...

simple criteria for playing poker.

[bigred]

The biggest key to success as a poker player is bankroll management. The rest is just details.

With that being said, the only two times I walk away from a table is when Im tilted (which I normally can avoid) or when I'm tired.

I think you will answer your own questions as you become more experienced. Experience is the result of playing everyday. Being able to play everyday is a result of still having money which is BR management; so make sure you learn how to manage your funds properly (risk/reward) and the rest will eventually fall into place if you keep posting and interacting here at FTR.

Good luck.

[ChezJ]

i think table selection is one of the most important keys to success. there will be days when you can't hit a flop to save your life, or you hit and get outdrawn constantly. there will be other days when you hit spectacularly and cannot be stopped. you need to make sure that when the latter occurs, you get PAID. it means nothing to hit a nut flush if nobody calls you down. you have to play at loose tables where the chips are flowing like wine. if you can handle it, play against maniacs and you will be rewarded immensely. those good days need to backfill all the potholes you experienced on the way up, so make 'em good.

ChezJ

[DogOnMySide]

The biggest key to success as a poker player is bankroll management. The rest is just details.

With that being said, the only two times I walk away from a table is when Im tilted (which I normally can avoid) or when I'm tired.

I think you will answer your own questions as you become more experienced. Experience is the result of playing everyday. Being able to play everyday is a result of still having money which is BR management; so make sure you learn how to manage your funds properly (risk/reward) and the rest will eventually fall into place if you keep posting and interacting here at FTR.

Good luck.

I like this. Good advice. I am ever so slightly under bankrolled at the moment... so maybe (as someone else said above) that when i've doubled up at a table i start to fear losing those chips, so perhaps play differently to when i'm trying to gain more chips.

Thanks for all the comments. I'm surprised that only one person said something like "i leave when i have doubled or tripled" rather than "i leave when i get tired"

[Rondavu]

If you ask me though, at a no limit table your profit should increase the longer you sit with the same people. Repore is everything.

Unless you're assuming your opponents are completely unobservant, you can expect them to be reacting to your play the same way you're reacting to theirs, can't you?

I'm assuming most aren't advanced enough to observe properly.

[The_Cheat]

Okay, who here turns a consistent (well, you know what I mean - consistent for poker) profit from ring games?

Winning hands is in some ways the easy bit... converting those winning hands into a steady increase in my bankroll seems the hard part.

If you're in this category of PPP's (profitable poker players) then... would you care to share your strategy for this?

- Do you play for a set time and then leave the table no matter what your stack is?
- Do you play until you have doubled up?
- Do you have a specific "i will leave the table when i have $X" rule? And if so, do you stick to it religiously?

I suppose quitting while you're ahead is vital, but it's those times when you're usually playing well.



I'm posting this in frustration of being at ~$60 in $25NL last night and eventually leaving the table with $26. Dealt A3 in big blind, flop came A63... someone else had limped with 63o... turn was a 6... i was being too aggressive.... oh dear. I WISH I'D QUIT WHEN I WAS AHEAD!!!


So - do you have any rules that YOU play by?

i got a email from jennifer harmon about this today:

Being a winning player isn't only about playing good cards - it's also about making good decisions. And there is one important decision you face every time you sit down in a cash game: Should I quit, or should I keep playing?

When should you keep playing?

I see so many players playing short hours when they're winning, and long hours when they're losing. It should be the other way around.

When you are winning in the game, at least a few of the other players must be losing. And when your opponents are losing, they often aren't playing their best. But you are.

When you're winning, other players fear you; you have a good table image. And when you have a good table image, you can get away with things that you can't seem to when you're losing. For one thing, you can bluff more. Usually a losing player is scared to get involved with a winning player, so it's easier for you to pick up pots. You can represent more hands than you actually have because your opponents believe you're hitting every flop.

The only time to quit when you're winning is when you are tired, or when you start playing badly.
When should you call it a day?

Many players can't seem to quit when they are losing. You have to remember that there will always be another poker game -- if not tomorrow, then the day after, or the week after. I like to think of poker as one continuous game going on for my whole career. So, if I'm losing more than 30 big bets in the game, I usually quit.

There are a couple of reasons I do this: For one, if I lose a ton of money in one day, I don't feel so hot the next day. That means if I go in to play the next day, I might not be able to play my best game. I might actually have to take a few days off to get my head straight. Another reason is that when I'm losing more than 30 bets, I might not be playing that well. I might think I'm playing my "A" game, but in reality, I'm probably not. You can't be as objective about your play when you're losing. After all, we are not robots; we're just human beings.

[Bmxicle]

You should only stop playing for psychological reasons. Whether it's because the money you have won is important to you, you don't feel like losing more money, you just don't feel like playing, or you are tired and unable to concentrate.

You only have to stop when something (usually psychological) is affecting your play, if you are playing right then losing or winning money isn't important on any given session.

This will sound a bit redundant, but assuming you are a winning player, you make money by playing more hands. The only reason to stop playing is if you can't be a winning player for some reason during that session (ie. tilt).

I always keep playing unless i don't feel like it, because i know that i'm playing winning poker, and losing my winnings or increasing my losses is unimportant to me.

Its hard to explain, but put simply, it only matters that you are playing solid poker all the time, it doesn't matter what happens on a given session.