My Swings. Was I a lucky beginner? Is PP tighter Lately?

[Cpaz]

Hi all. Not sure if I qualify as a newbie but I probably do. Been playing online since August 04. I started out losing most often of course. I read a little and played the free stuff. It gave me some experience but as you all know the free stuff plays much different. Anyway, after a couple of months I started to recover some of my losses. Whenever I made a reload it was only 50 sometimes 100 bucks. I actually got to cash out $150 here $100 there. (BTW, I mostly play $5 or $10 Sit n Goes.) I found out the hard way that staying up late drinking was not conducive. Large swings in chips. I found that if I played during normal hours and didn't have the Miller Lite I had very few losing days. This went on for a couple of months. Now, all of a sudden it seems like I don't know what I'm doing again. Within a weeks time at the sit and goes and a couple of times at the $.5 $1 limit tables(never brought more than $10 to the rings) I have lost $150.

I have taken a lot of bad beats. Some of which I recently posted in the hand strategy section but, I wonder if my play has changed.

What I did do was come to these forums and others on the net and really studied up some more. Oh, and I went to the bookstore and read some of Sklanksy's stuff and I also own a tournament book from TJ C. I feel I have learned a lot more about position lately and actually study my opponents and rate them as loose tight fish etc. I never did this before. I usually just played my hand and actually watched TV when it wasn't my turn to play. Was I just lucky? You might say yes but I really was consistantly placing in and winning my fair share. Enough to keep the earning on the rise at least.

Now I went back to the tables yesterday and today and only played in 3 SnGs but as I'm rating the players it seems to me that over half the table is now filled with solid players. Has anyone else noticed this? Is it just me? Have they always been this good even at the $5 tourneys? Maybe I am now overanalyzing everying? I dunno. I'm just sort of frustrated. I am not on tilt mind you. Just frustrated. I feel I am playing the same way and probably even better now that I am using position etc.

I know this is sort of a long rant but am wondering if anyone has any thoughts.

Thank you and BTW.... This site rocks!

[Waggho]

Hi! I am about as much a newbie as yourself, I hope I can help with some of my thoughts. I play mostly NL ring games at $10 max buy-in.

Whenever I made a reload it was only 50 sometimes 100 bucks. I actually got to cash out $150 here $100 there.

Hm, I don´t see why you cash in and reload - why not keep the money in the poker room all the time? Seems to me that it would cost some money with the transactions and more importantly: Why not use your winnings to build up your bankroll so that it could cover up for the variance?

Now, all of a sudden it seems like I don't know what I'm doing again. Within a weeks time at the sit and goes and a couple of times at the $.5 $1 limit tables(never brought more than $10 to the rings) I have lost $150.

I have taken a lot of bad beats. Some of which I recently posted in the hand strategy section but, I wonder if my play has changed.

This is the variance I´m talking about. It sucks when the downswings come, and it´s very easy to go on tilt and lose even more. Also, I think it´s typical for us less experienced players to begin thinking about our play when we suddenly start to lose. Experienced players have confidence in their ability to win in the long run. I think the best medicine is to make sure you play correctly and, as you did, post your hands in this forum. If you know that call you make is correct, it´s not as hard losing it. Sooner or later, you start to win again. And the most important thing when you do is that you have minimized your losses and learnt something from your downswing.

I feel I have learned a lot more about position lately and actually study my opponents and rate them as loose tight fish etc. I never did this before. I usually just played my hand and actually watched TV when it wasn't my turn to play. Was I just lucky? You might say yes but I really was consistantly placing in and winning my fair share. Enough to keep the earning on the rise at least.

This is what I think: the best is to watch the table, take reads etc. if you could manage to do it concentrated and not lose focus. I often find this hard in the long run, especially when sitting at a 10 player table getting nothing but shithands for an hour (then getting KK , bet hard, get 4 9 A on the flop and losing against that pair of aces). If this happens I go on tilt, and it´s no fun at all playing. I prefer playing at two tables at once, study the table just a little (looking for obvious maniacs and such) and reading at this forum between the decent hands. It keeps me tight, it´s fun, I´m learning from the forum and I can keep playing for many hours in a row.

I prefer this, but of course someone who is able to stay focused studying the table is doing better. Also, it´s a bit different in SnG:s as your opponents don´t come and go in the same way as in a ring game (hate it when you figure someone out and then he goes all-in, loses and dissappears).

Just a few thoughts!
W.

[Cpaz]

Thanks for the reply and advice.

Hm, I don´t see why you cash in and reload - why not keep the money in the poker room all the time? Seems to me that it would cost some money with the transactions and more importantly: Why not use your winnings to build up your bankroll so that it could cover up for the variance?

I actually only reloaded if my bankroll went down to $0. When I said I got to take out $100 here $150 there, that is only when I was up over $200.

A little update on my tiny bankroll I'm trying to make a comeback with....A chip and a chair, right?

Anyway. I seem to still be going out right on the bubble. I'm not really getting any cards to catch fish with. Only making enough blinds and such with some well timed (I hope) bluffs. I just played one where 7 people made it to the sixth round. I mean come on. That's a tight $6 table. So my stack was down to $10. This is not enough for the $11 sit and go and I didn't want to have to reload with $4. So what did I do?......

I went to the NL .5 $1 6 seated tables. I came in UTG+1 and was dealt an A9s. UTG bet out $2. Can you guess what I did next? That's right....I pushed it in. BT called and original raiser foled. I hit Aces UP (BT had pocket 8s) and took a $24 pot. I left and now I have enough for 4 more Sit N Goes. Maybe I should have doubled up a couple more times eh?

Well wish me luck.

[Aces]

Can't tell if you're overall up or down, but if you're playing $5 SNGs with a $24(or less) bankroll, you're playing with scared money and it's probably affecting your play whether you realize it or not. To play $5 SNG you need a more substantial BR.

If you're considering money you have already cashed out of Party to be part of your bankroll, then you shouldn't need to play ring games for the purpose of making enough to play SNGs(unless you wanted to play them anyway). If you have lose a little and go down to $4, go ahead and reload and play as normal. It's all the same money whether it's at Party or Neteller or wherever.

As for concentrating, I still like to play close attention to the games and not get too distracted by TV or surfing or whatever. There's usually enough going on to keep my attention, and it's good practice to try to read other players even if you're not involved in the hand. Take notes. I've been playing at Party $5-$50 SNGs for about a year and have not notice an appreciable difference in the number of solid players. Seems about the same to me.

[Cpaz]

Thank you for the reply. I have reloaded since my last post and I am up about $25 since then. Still seem to be playing scared now though I think. I think I may have become passive. Not good. I do play the first few rounds tight and only play premium hands and look for opportunities to double up but when I get to later stages I think I may get pushed around too much. I will not gamble much with anything but at least TPTK.

Maybe I am a little burned out as well. It seems before my little downswing here I was really involved and was confident in my play that I would make consistent gains. Now all I can think about is that bad beat upcoming and me losing my current BR.

I know this is mostly mental and I need to get through it but it seems to be a struggle right now. I know what I need to do. Just play my game!

I know this sounds a bit negative but just sharing what the struggles are at this point.

Buck up Paz!!!!!!!!!!

[Aces]

Hang in there man. Everyone goes through swings. Maybe a break would be a good thing. Do some studying. Read or reread some books. Go over stuff in this site or others. Maybe play some freerolls or play money SNGs till you feel your confidence is back. I think there are even some sites that have SNGs for less than $5, look at the reviews they're in there somewhere I think.

Good luck...

[fishstick]

take to heart what the others have said about adequate bankroll, bankroll management, and variance - it's good info.

now whether this applies to you, i don't know, but i firmly believe the poker sites' "dynamic" does change. i play mostly SNG's, and i don't know if i'd say the party poker SNG players are better than they were 6 months ago, but they are certainly playing tighter.

which means you have to adapt to the table dynamic. if it's maniac time, tight is right (at least until the blinds are going to eat you) - wait for a good hand to trap a gambler. if it's a tight passive table (little preflop raising), then see some cheap flops with 23 suited, q7 suited, etc. if you've got position and it's checked to you preflop, raise up whatever you have. if the blinds just fold, well you've got your blind money for the next circuit.

on tight passive table, you stay alive and profit by stealing from the tight passives and bluffing the flop when you've raised preflop. it all about position, and picking on the right players. bet into weakness.

i'm currently trying to work my way out of a tight passive rut that served me well 6 months ago on party, so i feel your pain. our style needs to confound however the table happens to be playing!

[Cpaz]

Thanks for reply.

My ROI is 49 since reload. Not getting rich but definately an improvement.

[Cpaz]

Well I think I finally got the message. Just don't mess with playing any hands in the first 3 or 4 rounds without having very premier hands. In fact, in the last sit-n-go I just played I was down to 560 chips pretty much watching everyone duke it out until I made my march to the top starting in the 4th round.

My ROI is now 67 and growing.

I have increased my bankroll since last deposit by 260%.

Winning strategy....Be patient. Painfully Patient. Then strike!

[Aceofone]

As far as prolonged downswings goes, often times this is when your skills are ascending to the next plateau.

It goes something like this:
1. Start playing for money >>> Get killed cuz you dont know what your doin.
2. Learn about game, tighten up >>>> Start making money
3. Learn that aggression is key>>>> Get killed for a long time, lose lots of money.
4. Learn that aggression isn't key, but aggression at the right moments is >>>> Start making money again
.... I dunno what comes after this though...

[Cpaz]

Very interesting post Ace. I've never heard anything like it before. It's a pretty accurate summary of my poker experience thus far. Let's just hope that number 5 is an endless winning streak with very few valleys!

[Aceofone]

I'll let you know if I get there first...