bad play or bad luck you decide

[scgolfer]

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Game #551533591 - $2/$4 Texas Hold'em - 2004/07/26-18:42:12 (CST)
Table "Rotuma" (real money) -- Seat 7 is the button
Seat 2: klemovit ($113.50 in chips)
Seat 3: goldchild9 ($277.00 in chips)
Seat 4: DoubleAgent ($10.00 in chips)
Seat 5: Greenbax2 ($28.00 in chips)
Seat 6: Tinca ($216.25 in chips)
Seat 7: scgolfer ($72.00 in chips)
Seat 8: nitewalker ($86.00 in chips)
Seat 9: Got72OffSuit ($108.00 in chips)
Seat 10: Metsuke ($92.50 in chips)
nitewalker: Post Small Blind ($1)
Got72OffSuit: Post Big Blind ($2)
Dealing...
Dealt to scgolfer [ Qh ]
Dealt to scgolfer [ Qc ]
Metsuke : Fold
klemovit: Call ($2)
goldchild9: Fold
DoubleAgent: Call ($2)
Greenbax2: Call ($2)
Tinca : Fold
scgolfer: Raise ($4)
nitewalker: Call ($3)
Got72OffSuit: Call ($2)
klemovit: Call ($2)
DoubleAgent: Call ($2)
Greenbax2: Call ($2)
*** FLOP *** : [ Td Qd Ac ]
nitewalker: Check
Got72OffSuit: Check
klemovit: Bet ($2)
DoubleAgent: Call ($2)
Greenbax2 said, "got the straight jump ship laddies"
Greenbax2: Raise ($4)
scgolfer: Call ($4)
nitewalker: Call ($4)
Got72OffSuit: Fold
klemovit: Call ($2)
DoubleAgent: Call ($2)
*** TURN *** : [ Td Qd Ac ] [ 3d ]
nitewalker: Check
klemovit: Check
DoubleAgent: Check
Greenbax2: Bet ($4)
scgolfer: Call ($4)
nitewalker: Call ($4)
klemovit: Call ($4)
DoubleAgent: Fold
*** RIVER *** : [ Td Qd Ac 3d ] [ 8s ]
nitewalker: Check
klemovit: Check
Greenbax2: Bet ($4)
scgolfer said, "crappppppp"
scgolfer said, "trips qqq"
Metsuke said, "call"
scgolfer: Call ($4)
nitewalker: Call ($4)
klemovit: Fold
*** SUMMARY ***
Pot: $69 | Rake: $3
Board: [ Td Qd Ac 3d 8s ]
klemovit lost $12 (folded)
goldchild9 didn't bet (folded)
DoubleAgent lost $8 (folded)
Greenbax2 lost $16 (showed hand) [ Kd Ts ] (a pair of tens)
Tinca didn't bet (folded)
scgolfer lost $16 (showed hand) [ Qh Qc ] (three of a kind, queens)
nitewalker bet $16, collected $69, net +$53 (showed hand) [ 4d 6d ] (a flush, queen high)
Got72OffSuit lost $4 (folded)
Metsuke didn't bet (folded)

[AvatarKava]

With both flush and straight draws out there I'd be reraising on the flop, not just calling. Chances are you'll still lose the hand (this is limit, after all), but at least that would have made nitewalker call a two-bet to see the turn.

[michael1123]

I decide: Bad Avatar

[scgolfer]

GReat avatar horrible luck!!

[michael1123]

I'm a Wings fan, so I still stand by my statement. Not to mention that the Avs have a dumb logo, and even worse looking purple uniforms. But hey, at least your avatar isn't that big hairy foot that's on the uniforms.

As in this, for those who are unfamiliar with it - http://www.cupstuff.com/nhl/colorado...afootlbc_m.jpg

[allLiving]

Raise a bit more. Your number 1 mistake was playing Limit..

[Fnord]

With both flush and straight draws out there I'd be reraising on the flop, not just calling. Chances are you'll still lose the hand (this is limit, after all), but at least that would have made nitewalker call a two-bet to see the turn.

LMAO.

You can't "charge" draws in a (small stakes) limit game. You just can't give them incorrect enough odds to call. It's flawed thinking that leads to leaks, so stop trying.

Figure out if you have the best hand and drive value from there. The flop play was fine, as you don't want to chase out the other hands (like top pair) drawing dead to paying off your hand and the flush draw. Turn play is fine, as the flush may be out, you don't have a diamond, you're either wayy ahead or wayy behind and once again overcalls are good.

[AvatarKava]

With both flush and straight draws out there I'd be reraising on the flop, not just calling. Chances are you'll still lose the hand (this is limit, after all), but at least that would have made nitewalker call a two-bet to see the turn.

LMAO.

You can't "charge" draws in a (small stakes) limit game. You just can't give them incorrect enough odds to call. It's flawed thinking that leads to leaks, so stop trying.

Figure out if you have the best hand and drive value from there. The flop play was fine, as you don't want to chase out the other hands (like top pair) drawing dead to paying off your hand and the flush draw. Turn play is fine, as the flush may be out, you don't have a diamond, you're either wayy ahead or wayy behind and once again overcalls are good.

Case in point why I don't play limit HE - I try to play it like a NL game, and you're probably correct I think I'm a little sensitive tonight, I took that LMAO to heart and really feel like a jerk now.

I still am not altogether sure that I shouldn't reraise there - in hindsight, it's easy to know that the raiser in front is on a draw, but any one of the people behind him could have been, too - I'd rather push the issue and be playing against one draw rather than possibly two or three. Again, not enough limit experience to know if players on a straight draw typically fold here, but I would think they should...

[Fnord]

I still am not altogether sure that I shouldn't reraise there - in hindsight, it's easy to know that the raiser in front is on a draw, but any one of the people behind him could have been, too - I'd rather push the issue and be playing against one draw rather than possibly two or three. Again, not enough limit experience to know if players on a straight draw typically fold here, but I would think they should...

It's not so much that raising to extract value from draws is wrong, but the thinking that you can make a strong draw (flush) fold or suffer. In a loose game you should instead think of them as your partner in crime as you both extract value from the other players with significantly less pot equity.

Top pair is a different story, because your hand is so vulnerable and you would love to win the pot outright. But with second set you want all sorts of random hands to hang around drawing thin (or dead) against you that would certainly fold on the flop if they had to call another 2-3 bets cold. With such a huge pot at that point everyone is tied to the pot and it becomes a shootout. Exactly where you want to be if the board pairs.

[Toasty]

I 3 bet this flop everytime.