Exploiting Blind 3b'er

[WeldPhaser]

A villain 3b'ing 35% oop, should I just flat and bet value, or can I 4bet AJs-AKs, TT-AA, KQs?????

Its a 100 sample so he's probably not that ridiculous, but still high, and it's 100bb's too....

[MadMojoMonkey]

I'd just switch tables. Playing a high variance game with 1 person at a non-heads-up table is just asking for trouble in my experience. I love to be sitting there when a pair of villains start playing big-pot-poker against each other. There will be a big pot for me when I actually catch a solid hand that hits the board.

[Imthenewfish]

you need to figure out if they're 3b'ing a wide value range or if they just have a lot of bluffs

[BorisTheSpider]

A villain 3b'ing 35% oop, should I just flat and bet value, or can I 4bet AJs-AKs, TT-AA, KQs?????

Its a 100 sample so he's probably not that ridiculous, but still high, and it's 100bb's too....

Depends what he calls 4bets with. Some will keep folding for a while then adjust and stop 3betting so wide, others will get it in preflop with outrageous crap.

Generally though, yeah, start 4betting and see what happens. If they fold a lot, sometimes it'll be better to call 3bets then station them down rather than play back postflop - sometimes they'll be the type to barrel off and you can adjust and call down appropriately light.

[WeldPhaser]

you need to figure out if they're 3b'ing a wide value range or if they just have a lot of bluffs

I think it's just a wide range.... kinda hard to say though, I 6bet shoved KK' and he just folded, and I took down almost 80bb's pre. I think moving is good idea though. Cause unless I'm really strong I'm obviously not 6b'ing, and I don't wanna 4betshove KQs right?

[Micro2Macro]

other stats here are kinda relevant with such a small sample.

is your 35% number rounded from say 2/6 times being 33%? The number isn't really useful unless we have a # of times to go with it.

[OngBonga]

Simplest fraction I can get that rounds to 35% is 6/17

[Imthenewfish]

Also you don't want to be 4b shoving anything 100 deep unless they 3b to a redic large amount or something

[WeldPhaser]

Also you don't want to be 4b shoving anything 100 deep unless they 3b to a redic large amount or something

right, and that's what I was gettin at I will post some more detailed info on villain tonight and hands, I was playing v.s. villain when I posted, so was not very detailed....

[WeldPhaser]

other stats here are kinda relevant with such a small sample.

is your 35% number rounded from say 2/6 times being 33%? The number isn't really useful unless we have a # of times to go with it.

This is the 3rd time he's 3b me, so I figure I better tighten up the button a bit, This is the first decent button I got.


Villain Is running 40/39 callPfr: 10 CCPF: 8 3bPF: 36 call 4b': 50%
3binBB: 53% 8/15, 3binsb: 29% 5/17.......over 140 hands

Revolution Gaming Network - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

UTG: $4.58
MP: $6.77
CO: $4.40
Hero (BTN): $6.13
SB: $6.24
BB: $4.06

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has J K

fold, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, BB raises to $0.38, Hero calls $0.26

Flop: ($0.78, 2 players) 2 Q 6
BB bets $0.56, fold

[Micro2Macro]

I think KJo plays decent as a 4b/fold with these stacks especially since playmaster wannabe aggro regs will call 4bets with total garbage, and the lower the SPR, the better off you are postflop with this hand. idk what micros are like anymore but im pretty sure no one really 5bet ships it in without the nuts (pretty much no one does at mid stakes except the spaniards or very good players). u also mentioned he's called 50% of 4bets so that makes me really wanna 4bet KJ.

something to keep in mind is your opponent may be stronger the 3rd time he 3bets you as opposed to the first. to break it down, his first 3bet may be a really wide range to test you, the 2nd may be similar, but the 3rd may consist of fewer bluffs and wider value hands due to him knowing u know he seems wide.

but that assumes the guy is thinking. he could have just gotten qq+ or whatever 3 times in a row because its 4nl and ppl at 4nl dont have brains. given that his stats are high and hes called at least one 4bet in this small sample bayes theorem is leading me towards believing he's one of the few aggro monkey tards that wont ever fold and likely is pretty damn wide, in which case, you should be able to own him because YOU are in position.

id never leave this seat.

[BorisTheSpider]

I think it's just a wide range.... kinda hard to say though, I 6bet shoved KK' and he just folded, and I took down almost 80bb's pre. I think moving is good idea though. Cause unless I'm really strong I'm obviously not 6b'ing, and I don't wanna 4betshove KQs right?

If he's 5bet then folded to a 6bet shove, I'd normally assume a maniac and that he had total trash, especially if he's 3bing as much as you say in the first place. Any value hand you can 5bet to 40bb you can't possibly fold to a shove 100bb deep - you have enough equity to call with anything once that much has already gone in the pot.

[WeldPhaser]

you should be able to own him because YOU are in position.

id never leave this seat.

Here is another hand v.s. villain...... I'll put his stats up quick so ya don't have to look back and forth..... 40/39 Callpfr: 10 CCPF: 8 3bPF: 36% Call 4b': 50%..... 3binBB: 53% 8/15 3binSB: 29% 5/17

Is it ok to open this w/ him in the blinds, let alone open, Flat his 3bet??? I'm always folding this in LP to a blind 3b, but seemed ok to do v.s. the maniac......

I guess my flop shove is a sort of semi-bluff, I got excited here. Should I have just con't betting streets......I have a ton of equity here....

Revolution Gaming Network - $0.04 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $3.84
UTG: $7.19
Hero (CO): $4.54
BTN: $6.74
SB: $3.97

SB posts SB $0.02, BB posts BB $0.04

Pre Flop: ($0.06) Hero has 6 7

fold, Hero raises to $0.12, fold, SB raises to $0.40, fold, Hero calls $0.28

Flop: ($0.84, 2 players) 2 A 4
SB bets $0.57, Hero raises to $4.14 and is all-in, fold

[OngBonga]

Think I'd just quietly fuck off to another table. This guy is pretty damn aggressive on the blinds vs lp opens, he's not the kind of person I want sat to my left.

I'd probably raise the KJ on flop, dunno about shoving the flush draw, think I prefer a standard raise so it's not easy for villain to determine if I have flush draw or set or 2pr etc.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Have you noticed, yet, how all of these adjustments will put you in the position of Playing a high variance game against 1 villain at a non-heads-up table?

You will find yourself and villain tossing 100 - 200bb pots back and forth. This is what happens when players become more aggressive with wider ranges. This can land you a bunch of huge pots when things are going well. It can do the opposite, too. You can get your money in good 5 times and lose 4 of them. We all know that feeling.

Don't forget that villain can leave at any time. Plus, this villain is on your left, and you want aggro villains on your right. Add in that there are other players at this table who want nothing more than to bust one of you, so that the game goes back to "normal" (in their view). This spot is probably 0EV or -EV at these stakes.

[WeldPhaser]

Think I'd just quietly fuck off to another table. This guy is pretty damn aggressive on the blinds vs lp opens, he's not the kind of person I want sat to my left.

I'd probably raise the KJ on flop, dunno about shoving the flush draw, think I prefer a standard raise so it's not easy for villain to determine if I have flush draw or set or 2pr etc.

right-o Ong, yeah, like I said I got excited and stuffed the flop there. hindsight wants to play it w/out the shove, ya know.

Just calling flop is fine prob too huh?

[WeldPhaser]

Have you noticed, yet, how all of these adjustments will put you in the position of Playing a high variance game against 1 villain at a non-heads-up table?

You will find yourself and villain tossing 100 - 200bb pots back and forth. This is what happens when players become more aggressive with wider ranges. This can land you a bunch of huge pots when things are going well. It can do the opposite, too. You can get your money in good 5 times and lose 4 of them. We all know that feeling.

Don't forget that villain can leave at any time. Plus, this villain is on your left, and you want aggro villains on your right. Add in that there are other players at this table who want nothing more than to bust one of you, so that the game goes back to "normal" (in their view). This spot is probably 0EV or -EV at these stakes.

I agree Mojo, and your right on the fact of the rest of the table probably just wanting to play a normal game. I happen to be the in the worst spot against him and doing exactly the wrong thing( getting out of my comfort zone)...

thanks

[OngBonga]

Just calling flop is fine prob too huh?

Calling sucks imo, I'd sooner just fold. Against this guy, who is 3betting wide, we should raise flop, because we have lots more fold equity than against a tighter range, and we have lots of hand equity when he doesn't fold. Calling means we have zero fold equity, and he's not giving us a great price to be drawing, we have to win more off him when we hit the flush, and if he's bluffing, which he is a lot, he will often just shut down when the flush completes. We need some fold equity, and we have it, so don't be afraid to use it. Don't call this, either raise or fold.

[bikes]

why does calling suck now?

[OngBonga]

Why does calling suck? We have a 5:1 chance of hitting the turn or something like that, right? Are we getting the right price? No. So if we hit the turn, we need to get a little more off him to justify the call. His range is wide as fuck. We call on this flop. What's he gonna do when the diamond comes on the turn and he has jack high? He's gonna shut down. So we're going to find it tough to make money off him on the turn when we make the flush.
If we raise, we put pressure on all his king high and queen high crap that currently we lose to, we might even get him to fold a pair, and when he continues we still have equity.

I realise you're far superior to me when it comes to poker, but I think calling this flop is our weakest option. Please tell me why I'm wrong.

[kickass]

What hands do you raise for value here? What hands do you call with? We has position, life is good! How easy do you think it is for villain to keep barrelling with J high? Or pocket kings for that matter? Even rag aces are gonna feel like they might be towning themselves.

[OngBonga]

What hands do you raise for value here? What hands do you call with?

On this flop, against this guy, I'm raising sets and aces up for sure, and probably AJ+, expecting calls from Ax and flush draws and maybe some other shit. I'm calling weak Ax and maybe 88/99, stuff that doesn't hold up well against his continuing range to a raise but plays better when he can keep betting air.

I'm not pretending to know how to play my entire range here correctly, but we have a shit flush draw here against someone who likes to 3bet from the blinds a lot. He has so many bluffs here I just don't see how calling at this price is going to show a profit. Raising seems like such a +ev move and calling looks -ev to me, I don't even know what the fuss is all about.

[Micro2Macro]

you guys have everything completely wrong and i dont even know where to start

[kickass]

[WeldPhaser]

you guys have everything completely wrong and i dont even know where to start

I guess I'm taking the move to another table advice, While you guys sort it out... lol

[kickass]

humbly as a mother fuck m2m please find a place to start. you are clearly vastly superior to us and i would love to know what your thought process is in this, not to uncommon a situation. I didn't realize this kinda thing was a leak for me so i am super intrigued as to why or what it is im doing right/wrong and why it is right/wrong.
i get it if you dont give enough of a fuck to reply and i still feel i have learnt something from you bothering in the first place. humblest respect and thanks

[OngBonga]

tl;dr

m2m, spoon feed me

[Micro2Macro]

alright start with adjusting your open size down to a min raise and go from there

[OngBonga]

So why would we min raise 67s against someone who likes to 3bet a lot? So his 3bet is smaller, thus the SPR is larger?

Fuck knows why, but I very rarely min raise, I guess I don't know when or why.

[The Bean Counter]

Never, ever leaving this seat - this villain is an atm when we have position, not to mention being good experience and great fun if you've got good BRM.

It can be a bit hair-raising at times bluff raising the turn, getting it in pre with 99, 4betting A-5s, stationing down with 2nd pair, etc, etc, but ultimately you'll make a decent amount of money off this guy if you're prepared to have a big pair of balls and maintain a solid thought process.

+1 to everything M2M said too.

[Micro2Macro]

fuck yeah bean counter lets make love