2NL: bottom 2-pair vs bet and raise

[Fielmann]

1st orbit, no reads. Neither of them had shown aggression before, though. I wasn't sure what to do on the flop at all. On one hand, such big bets and raises are uncommon and I'm often either slightly ahead or far behind. On the other hand they might still call with worse.

Is anyone folding or raising this pre?

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Poker Stars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($1.98)
UTG+1 ($0.81)
MP1 ($4.64)
MP2 ($1.58)
Hero (CO) ($2.65)
Button ($1.94)
SB ($1.25)
BB ($3.54)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 9, 10
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.08) 9, 10, Q (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.12, MP2 raises $0.34, Hero raises $2.63 (All-In)

[seven-deuce]

I don't play FR but since its only the first orbit and you have no reads i'd probably make a disciplined lay down here. It is possible MP2 limped KJ QT etc so you could be behind but it is tight. BB donking suggests to me he could have a jack or FD, i'd probably fold and hope the pot goes to showdown and you get to see their cards giving you information you can use later.

[OngBonga]

Fold flop. Villains will have things like QT KJ QJ KQ etc, lots we beat right now and some we lose to, but when we are ahead we need to dodge a lot of cards, and when we're behind we're drawing on four outs at best.

Pre flop I'd probably iso the limper, raise the blinds off and try to take the button. Limping is probably ok, folding is never going to be bad with T9.

Assuming blinds fold to my iso and MP calls, I b/f flop, or r/f if he donks.

[gotigers1234]

I have had it beaten into me that limping is bad.... so I would prob raise or fold this pre based on what type of players you have to act behind you.

[OngBonga]

I have had it beaten into me that limping is bad.... so I would prob raise or fold this pre based on what type of players you have to act behind you.

Open limping is bad. Limping behind (after someone else has limped) is not so bad, depends a lot on table dynamics, if we think the BB or BU will auto raise the limpers, if we think big hands will get paid off etc.

[tiltingdonkey]

I have had it beaten into me that limping is bad.... so I would prob raise or fold this pre based on what type of players you have to act behind you.

Not necessarily. We aren't open-limping in this case so we could make the case for limping, "if stacks were good" (and so many other variables). In this case though I agree with either raising or folding but I'm leaning towards a fold.

Open-limping is different though, but there are still a few situations where it is the best play.

edit: bleh, ongbonga beat me to it.

[MadMojoMonkey]

Is anyone folding or raising this pre?

Personally, I would raise.

T9s is in my top 10% for deep stack play. I prefer to play JTs and T9s over KTs and QTs, for various reasons. If you are strong playing post-flop w/ suited connectors, consider swapping JTs into your top hands for something when stacks are 100bb+.

I like JTs over KTs because JTs can catch 4 straights, and they're all the nuts. When it catches a flush it's stronger than most. In short, I'm usually acutely aware of where I am in a hand with JTs from any position, where w/ KTo, I have to play the kicker guessing game.

[Hoopy]

Stove our hand vs their possible ranges, BB likes his hand with the small overbet into 3 people, MP2 will go with whatever he's raising most of the time. Our equity isn't great.

[Fnord]

I raise this pre so the button can play fewer hands and to make the pot bigger.

Flop is a pretty easy laydown. With 2 more cards to come your equity doesn't look very good even if you have the best made hand on the flop.

[Razvan729]

being first orbit and no reads, limping behind MP2 isnt bad and T9s play ok multiway. if its folded to you, always open.

flop it's an easy fold. sometimes you'll see them at SD with Jx crap or 45dd, but dont be result oriented cause the right play it's to fold.

[Fnord]

LOL! I'm MORE inclined to bump this pre-flop during my first orbit. Got to start building mistrust...