Am i missing value here?

[seven-deuce]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($4.12)
Hero (CO) ($6.74)
Button ($0.84)
SB ($1.56)
BB ($2.90)
UTG ($0.89)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A, K
2 folds, Hero bets $0.06, Button calls $0.06, SB calls $0.05, BB calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.24) 8, A, 9 (4 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.12, Hero raises to $0.36, 2 folds, BB calls $0.24

Turn: ($0.96) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

River: ($1.36) A (2 players)
BB bets $0.22, Hero calls $0.22

Total pot: $1.80 | Rake: $0.06

His small bets confused the hell out of me, felt like he was trying to induce a raise with a flush, as he called the re-raise on the flop then donked out with a tiny bet on turn and river.

[d0zer]

felt like he was trying to induce a raise with a flush

Yeah fish don't really do that, their reasoning for betting small with monsters is usually "don't scare them off". The thing is that fish will also sometimes take this line with worse aces, and sometimes OESDs with a single spade. They'll also often check a flush, or just bet out really big, so I think we have to discount a flush enough, and throw in enough of the other stuff that we can raise/call the turn.

[MadMojoMonkey]

The POB (post-oak-bluff): a tiny bet that only a complete retard would fold to. E.g. betting $0.20 into $0.96.

Pros: This move works well against fit-or-fold players who sometimes raise-bluff the flop, but never continue unless they're made (complete retards).

Cons: Unless Villain is excellent post-flop player, this is a huge leak in his game and is easily exploitable. Figure out what it means once, and it almost always means that every time.

I re-raise the heck out of these bets 'cause they piss me off more than anything. On hands I was going to check/fold, when Villain POB's, I'm liable to check/raise to pot just because they look so weak. This is a good spot for a bluff attempt. Unwise opponents will always think a check-raise is strong. Also, they tend to bet their hand's value, so a small bet means a small hand.

If they stop POB'ing / their frequency goes way down, they have decided to trap you. They will start to soft bet their big hands, trying to trap your maniac ways. Don't fall for it. If you were bluffing and it didn't work, when it usually does, they're calling you down. Bluff failed, end the aggression.

[d0zer]

wat are you talking about monkey? you think villain bet/called the flop with air only to tiny bluff the turn?

[MadMojoMonkey]

I think on the turn Hero has TPTK and NFD. I have no stats or info about this Villain, so range to call a CO ATS ~35%. Not necessarily air, but not necessarily a FD either.

In my experience a POB means a weak / scared hand. I think this is a perfect opportunity to raise the turn and see what Villain does in this spot. Hero has a ton of equity in NFD, even if Villain is currently ahead.

[d0zer]

ok, you need a much better reason to raise the turn than "see what villain does"

[OngBonga]

I'd consider this turn bet a check and raise to something like $0.85.
If he calls then checks over, I'd bet out obv, not sure if he makes a small donk bet again, probably raise this river but call bricks.
If he raises over the turn raise, well I guess I call with nfd but depends on sizing of course. This river is obv very difficult to fold if he leads out properly on river after raising turn, but if he jams then it's easier.

[Icanhastreebet]

wtf is this POB shit.


The POB (post-oak-bluff): a tiny bet that only a complete retard would fold to. E.g. betting $0.20 into $0.96.

This is completely wrong, there's tonnes of situations where villain can have almost nothing in his range so him playing back would be more retarded then just c/fing to small bet. This hand is easy turn and river raises.

[MadMojoMonkey]

ok, you need a much better reason to raise the turn than "see what villain does"

I agree, and I stated a number of reasons: TPTK, NFD, no notes on this villain, and a weak line that almost always will mean next time what it means this time.

@ Icanhastreebet: I grant you that I was being hyperbolic when I threw in the "complete retard" part. A POB, again, usually indicates weak and scared, and hoping to take it down with little risk (enough reason to raise regardless of my cards if it's the right read). The bet is so small that w/o a specific read that says Villain does this with strong made hands, a ton of hands are priced in to call.

On the turn here, w/ almost 6:1 pot odds, we're priced in to call if we are behind, but have 7 clean outs. With TPTK and 9 clean outs (the only spade that pairs the board is in our hand), this is a fun spot to punish the POB with a pot-sized raise.

[daven]

raise turn

[Fnord]

This is very much "it depends" on the opponent, board texture, etc. If you're dealing with someone who plays too many pots passively, then it shouldn't take more than an orbit or two to get a good feel for what's he's up to.

USUALLY it's an attempt at pot control with a weak hand or draw.

SOMETIMES it's a value bet with a very strong hand to attempt to at worst get a call, at best induce a raise.

Given how that the turn completed the flopped flush draw, there is often merit to calling to see a river card + action. However, with the nut flush re-draw, our hand is probably too good to not put in a small raise for value (a little less than a buck or so.)

As played on the river we figure to be good too often and his play is pretty sketchy so it's a pretty clear raise for value even though you'll feel stupid and see the flush sometimes. You'll also feel smart and get called by T9 sometimes...

[seven-deuce]

Thanks for the advice everyone.