Top two pair vs. set

[LvB4uDi]

I have a mental block or something about the following scenario. Say you have JTs flop comes JT8 rainbow. How do you put villian on pocket 8's when he just calls your preflop raise flop raise and turn raise then pops you all in on the river. I have lost 5 stacks in the last few days to this very scenario. In most of these hands I would consider villians as mainiacal with anywhere to 65/4 to 90/10. Thank you in advance for any information.

[Openside]

I have a mental block or something about the following scenario. Say you have JTs flop comes JT8 rainbow. How do you put villian on pocket 8's when he just calls your preflop raise flop raise and turn raise then pops you all in on the river. I have lost 5 stacks in the last few days to this very scenario. In most of these hands I would consider villians as mainiacal with anywhere to 65/4 to 90/10. Thank you in advance for any information.

When the villain is calling you down OOP and shoves the river alarm bells should be going off, especially with a straight draw on the board. 65/4 and 90/10 are calling stations, they are calling the river, not shoving.

[JKDS]

You arent putting villain on pocket 8s. You are putting villain on a range of hands which makes sense for villain to do given the line he took.

For instance, you would put Q9, 97, 88, TT, JJ, J8, T8, and any other hands that got there by the river (like AK or KQ or something) and then you would analayze your equity vs that range and then determine what the best action is to take.

If you're doing this and he consitantly shows the best part of his range...then thats either bad variance...or you're giving him an incorrect range (where he only has top parts so you'd only see top parts as opposed to him having hands you could have beaten).

[kmind]

I have a feeling your wording is incorrect when you say flop "raise" and turn "raise" because this makes a difference but either way you probably have to go broke.

Post these 5 hands with reads.

[bhaley66]

You arent putting villain on pocket 8s. You are putting villain on a range of hands which makes sense for villain to do given the line he took.

This...

Post these 5 hands with reads.

And this.

[LvB4uDi]

I understand to put villian on ranges but mid pocket pairs are almost always going to be included in that range, but AJ or QJ is also going to be in that range. These were not specific hands and maybe I use the wrong example substitute a 6 for the 8 and villians holding pocket 6s.

By flop raise and turn raise what I mean is I am value raising the flop turn and river and then villian pushes all in on river. There are no straights or flushes possible. I have top two pair vs. and under set. How do you ever see this before the river push.

[LvB4uDi]

Am i not supposed to value bet top two pair because the one hand that beats me is still in villians range?

[Openside]

How do you ever see this before the river push.

You dont, especially against a station. Tough position.

Edit: im assuming you meant betting and he is c/c.

[jyms]

Are you raising or betting each street? there is a huge difference

[JKDS]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ck-116355.html

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

[LvB4uDi]

Right i see what you mean. I am betting for value on each street. Villian is either outright calling or c/c.

[Openside]

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ck-116355.html

http://www.flopturnriver.com/pokerfo...ll-173396.html

JKDS, could you link or quickly explain the 10x rule that is referred to in your link.

[JKDS]

JKDS, could you link or quickly explain the 10x rule that is referred to in your link.

The 10x rule is old advice, the article was only linked for relevance to spotting sets through range analysis.

In general, if you call less than 5% of your stack you can setmine profitably...if you have to call more than 10% you can't, and everything in between is shady.