PSA: Microstakes at PokerStars > Microstakes at Full Tilt

[spoonitnow]

Long story short, for 2nl after rakeback at Full Tilt you're paying about twice the rake as at PokerStars, pretending you don't even earn FPPs. Full Tilt before RB is abot $0.0038/hand of rake and about $0.0028/hand after rakeback, while PokerStars is about $0.0014/hand in rake.

If people would like to post 5nl and 10nl samples (list 6m or fr, # of hands, MGR over that sample) that would be cool.

[!Luck]

STARS FR
5NL: 20,611 hands, MGR 63.39 / 56.55 Rake
10NL: 52,727 hands, MGR 299.82 / 268.20 Rake

[Gobbatino]

5NL: 20,611 hands, MGR 63.39 / 56.55 Rake
10NL: 52,727 hands, MGR 299.82 / 268.20 Rake

@Stars amairait?

[surviva316]

@Stars amairait?

@ FR mirite?

[surviva316]

all FTP:

10nl FR: 20,009 hands, $180.20 in rake, $171.22 MGR

10nl 6m: 42,961 hands, $602.65 in rake, $750.23 MGR

5nl FR: 10,292 hands, $48.70 in rake, $58.94 MGR

i have microscopic samples (1k here 2k there) at FTP 5nl 6m as well as all of the corresponding PS stakes. also all of this is from summer of last year and earlier, so if any changes have occurred to the rake system, then these numbers are skewed.

[daviddem]

Spoon, the $0.0038 per hand you state on FTP, for which stakes is this? 2NL, 5NL, 10NL? An average of these?

Should we not look at this in bb/100 hands rather than in absolute $ value?

As far as I am concerned, small sample: 2NL on FTP, 3514 hands, total rake before rakeback $8.89:
$0.0025 per hand
$0.25/100 hands
1.25bb/100 hands.

After rakeback: I looked and got back $3.01 in rakeback (dealt). So after rakeback I paid $5.88:
$0.0017 per hand
$0.17/100 hands
0.84bb/100 hands

[spoonitnow]

Sorry daviddem, it was for 2nl.

And it doesn't matter if you look at it in bb/100 or $/100 or $/hand or bb/hand. It's all the same comparison.

Additionally, you have to look at MGR, not rake paid.

[daviddem]

Is there a clear explanation somewhere of what is MGR vs rake paid?

I have a "rake" amount in my HEM database. I would think that this is the total amount of rake deductions from the pots I have won. If I add all the monthly rakes reported by my rakeback manager, I get a different number, which makes sense to me because rakeback is calculated over my rake contribution (by the "dealt" method) to any pot I contributed to, whether I won it or not.

But I would have thought that the actual cost of the rake to me is the first one of the above two numbers (minus whatever rakeback I get).

Confused, confused...

[QrawrBO]

Contributing 23,474 hands
Stars 6m 10NL
Rake paid $200.81
Not sure where MGR is in HEM

[spoonitnow]

Is there a clear explanation somewhere of what is MGR vs rake paid?

I have a "rake" amount in my HEM database. I would think that this is the total amount of rake deductions from the pots I have won. If I add all the monthly rakes reported by my rakeback manager, I get a different number, which makes sense to me because rakeback is calculated over my rake contribution (by the "dealt" method) to any pot I contributed to, whether I won it or not.

But I would have thought that the actual cost of the rake to me is the first one of the above two numbers (minus whatever rakeback I get).

Confused, confused...

MGR stands for monthly gross rake, which is the average rake paid by each player at a table. So if there were 5 players dealt into a hand where $1 rake was taken out of the pot, your MGR from that hand would be $0.20. MGR is what's important for this because playing styles and opponents will change the rake you personally pay, and also because rakeback for the major sites are calculated using MGR, not rake paid.

[EasyPoker]

Apparently there's a new microstakes rake structure at stars. Given this, is this thread's title still appropriate? Or is it time for a microfish like me to move to FTP?

[kiwiMark]

As I was told it, rake at micros now works like this:

PokerStars: 1 cent raked in 20
FullTiltPoker: 1 cent raked in 15

At FullTiltPoker, you're getting 27% rakeback (assuming you have it ldo), so you're actually only paying 0.73 cents in 15, or 1 cent in 20.55 cents.

That means that unlike before, the situation is now that FullTilt w/Rakeback is better than PokerStars without rakeback. However, you will of course still be earning FPPs at PokerStars which you can use to buy cash bonuses (or to enter FPP SNGs) which swings the balance back slightly to PokerStars' favour.

Long story short, as far as I can tell it's pretty much even, PokerStars has a slight edge but nothing to get too excited about.

[EasyPoker]

Danke.

[spoonitnow]

Long story short, as far as I can tell it's pretty much even, PokerStars has a slight edge but nothing to get too excited about.

Stars has a slight edge in the rake department, and a huge edge in everything else, so still pretty clear that it's Stars ftw.

[philly and the phanatics]

11530 hands at full ring full tilt poker (since may 28th so you know its recent), mgr= 62.34

[spoonitnow]

11530 hands at full ring full tilt poker (since may 28th so you know its recent), mgr= 62.34

listing the stakes might help

[philly and the phanatics]

5nl sorry i thought i did

[spoonitnow]

5nl sorry i thought i did

ty