Live & Online Poker

[atikabo]

Is there a difference between Live Poker and Online Poker? Which is more difficult?

[oskar]

1/2 live plays like 1c/2c online. What makes it interesting is that you need to archive a much higher winrate relative to the blinds to make it worth it because of rake, tips and the cost of being at the venue: drinks, food, gas money...

It generally plays much deeper So even though your BR requirements drop because your edge as a winning player is that much bigger, you still need a pretty similar BR in relation to the blinds.
- Standard open raises are bigger and many hands are straddled, so it plays similar to 2.33 times the stake that it is.
You have to be willing to value bet much thinner.

If you want to play live, I'd recommend you either find venues that offer live microstakes - some clubs and even some casinos do. They don't make money off those tables, but they're there to get people started... not unlike tournaments.
The route I would recommend is to build your roll online starting with the lowest stakes.
I would say it's ok to take shots at the lowest live games once you reach about 20BI in winnings (that you still have available to you), but that's not the roll you want to maintain when you plan on playing these games regularly, or when you move up to 2/5, 5/10 - 50 buy-ins is more reasonable.
Not only because of the swings, but also because the money involved shouldn't affect your decisions in any way. When loosing 200bb in a pot affects you in any way, you shouldn't be playing in that game imo.

[pokerfan]

we can win more money per hand in live games and more money per hour in online games. I can win more than 8 buyins one night in live 1/2NL games but i cant do this even in online FR 100NL games.
25NL+ online games are much tougher than 1/2 NL live IMO.

[LawDude]

Some recommendations on live games:

1. If you are a no limit player, you really need to look for structures that suit your style of play. This should usually mean deep stacks (though I know there are some shallow stack players out there). Thus, I'd much rather play in the Bicycle Club's $300 buy in $1/$3 no limit game than the Commerce's $40 buy-in $1/$2 no limit game.

2. You need to beat the rake. The lowest limit games often have rakes / drops that make them essentially unbeatable. The rakes don't tend to go up proportionate to the stakes, so higher limit games-- even though they will attract better players-- are absolutely necessary if you want to make money over time.

3. You need a bankroll that allows you to play in higher limit games. Self-explanatory.

4. Consider using a player's bank at the casino. If you do not do this, you will find yourself driving to and from the casino, walking to and from your car, and walking through the casino with large wads of cash on you. This makes you a target for thefrt.

5. Tip reasonably, though you don't have to tip ridiculously. Casino staffs are routinely underpaid, and decent tippers also are remembered when it comes to table changes, quick service and seating, and maybe even a floor ruling every once in awhile. Tip the floor, tip the chip girl, tip the dealer after winning a significant pot (tips after small pots aren't required), tip if you win a BBJ or a table share, tip the parking attendant, tip the porter, and tip the waiter.

Yes, this cuts into your winnings a bit, but it is +EV long term.

6. Don't be a douche. Live poker is a social event. Further, it is the social aspect of it that brings losing players back to the tables. Yes, sometimes you have to protect your legitimate interests by bringing the floor over, or doing some psychological manipulation when you are heads up, or shutting up when someone else is talking to you, but in general, you should be friendly, sympathetic, and generally a reasonably nice person to the other people at the table.

7. Use online poker to improve your live game. The great advantages online players have is that there are always lots of games available and you can play a busload of hands (even more if you multitable, but a lot even if you single table). Find an online game from among the huge numbers out there that plays like your live game. I've found that .25/.50, .50/1, and 1/2 limit on PokerStars, for instance, play a lot like the live 6/12, 8/16, 15/30, 20/40, 25/50, and 30/60 limit games that I like to play live. Physical tells are somewhat overrated, and your reads get a lot better when you combine your physical observations with the disciplined placement of players on ranges that you get from playing online.

[TonyB73]

... many hands are straddled ...

??

[idfk]

... many hands are straddled ...

??

A straddle (here in Australia) is a bet UTG before seeing your cards.

Eg. Blinds are $1/2 and you straddle UTG for $4


atikabo:

There are massive differences between Live and Online poker.

My opinion is based against the live poker here in Australia (Crown Casino)

Live:
-Pot sizes are always bigger.
-Less hands per hr which will widen hand selection (more fish).
-Hourly rate is harder to achieve since you are limited to 1 table at a time.
-Sessions are always longer.
-Hourly fee to play on table plus rake is much higher.
-You don't get points or rewards for playing (points are awesome btw)
-Players are much worse.

Online:
-You can multi-table which will allow you to distribute your BR.
-More hands per hour.
-Smaller pots.
-No overheads.
-More flexibility.
-Easier to make notes against players.
-Software available to allow for stats and hand history record keeping.


If you are trying to figure out which is harder? Live or online? Then you will be discussing it forever as they are both very different to each other and really you shouldn't be trying to compare.

Based on the Buy-in and the stake, with the exception of Poker Pro the smallest level here is $2/3 with $200 max BI. If you were to compare live $2/3 with online $2/4 then obviously $2/4 is harder.

But it's not always about that. Live poker can be very difficult and also tiring. For example, if you are playing online poker using proper BRM and rolled for it then you can 12 table and play like a nit for 2-3hrs and beat it for whatever BB per hour and call it a day. You are always getting mental stimulation from playing so many tables at once as well as automatic stat tracking abilities that you don't even need to care how you're opponents are playing because your hand selection is so tight that when you come into a hand it essentially doesn't matter what you are holding because if you're not set mining then you have AA/KK/QQ/AK/AQ and as soon as you isolate preflop you can gain access to your opponents stats to determine their betting and folding frequency post flop. This is just the tip of the iceberg btw.

Live poker is a lot different to that and you require a lot more patience and the hands take a lot longer to finish. You cant take notes or instantly see someones stats. It all comes down to your memory and reading ability. To be a successful live poker player, before you even start to consider your win rates you need to have a strong table game, with the lesser leaks the better, read table dynamic and players, be focused for long periods of time. Did I mention patient? You need this more than anything and if you don't have it you can very easily tilt yourself. In order to maximize how much you can extract from someone when you know you're ahead you really have to be paying attention to how they play with 2nd best pair, or if it is more profitable to check raise or check call, knowing they will continue to bet into you. You need to be able to control the pot size when it suits you a lot more, because so we can play hands with the correct odds and implied odds if we are not playing with a made hand already

This discussion can really have no end but at the end of the day it is easier to play against a 1-tabling fish than a 12-tabling nit. If you can find a table with a few of them on there you can just run all over them and outplay them 85% of the time. You have to allow for that 15% to keep them there dumping money on the table.