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Help in a common 2NL situation

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  1. #1

    Default Help in a common 2NL situation

    Here's a hand scenario that I seem to run into a lot in 2NL on PokerStars and I would love to hear some thoughts, criticisms, etc.:

    PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed)

    CO ($3.68)
    Button ($5.77)
    SB ($1.09)
    BB ($5.05)
    UTG ($2.24)
    Hero (MP) ($5.32)

    Preflop: Hero is MP with Kh, Ac
    UTG calls $0.02, Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.09, BB calls $0.08, 1 fold

    Flop: ($0.42) Qd, 9h, Qs (4 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

    Turn: ($0.42) 9s (4 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

    River: ($0.42) Ah (4 players)
    SB checks, BB checks, Hero checks, Button checks

    Total pot: $0.42 | Rake: $0

    My thoughts as this hand went down:

    AKo in UTG+1. UTG limps so I bump it up 4xbb+1bb for the limper.

    All but the original UTG limper call the .10. I have less than 20 hands recorded for any of these guys so I don't have any reads or useful info to go on.

    Flop misses me... do I bet out into a flop that I missed completely when there are three other people in the hand with me? I check.

    Board pairs again. Now if anyone has a Q or a 9 they've got a boat and I'm completely dead. Betting would seem like a stupid move here as I feel like I'm only going to get called by a hand that beats me here.

    River gave me hope that If anyone called with an A (and didn't hit the Q or the 9) that my K should net me the pot with AAQQK. But again, that's best case scenario. A lot of hands that these guys could've called with could beat me... like connectors: QJ, QT, 9T, 89, etc.

    Anyway, long and short of it is I find this scenario a lot. Where I make what I feel is a decent raise in early position only to have at least half the table calling and I am at a loss as to what to do when the I completely miss the flop.

    Any advice or food for thought would be much appreciated.

    * as an aside, I can't post images/URLs yet so my hand histories will be showing the suit with the first letter, obviously.
  2. #2
    There's nothing wrong shutting down with a whiffed AK at 2NL, especially when the whole table sees the flop with you.

    I don't mind how you played the hand but I prefer a 1/2 pot bet for value on that river. If somebody raises you then re-evaluate but it really doesn't look like anybody has a Q or a 9 at this point.

    It is very likely that somebody else has an Ace because people at 2NL love to call with Ax.

    What was your plan on the river if button bet 1/2 pot after you checked? If your answer is call, then you should probably bet because people will generally call with a much wider range than they will bet with. It's quite possible to get value out of K or J high here too imo.
  3. #3
    Stacks's Avatar
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    Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
    Very standard hand up till river, when you can probably safely value bet. If raised, it's an easy fold.

    Why would you consider doing anything else on the flop/turn? Noone would call with a worse hand, and def don't fold better.

    Also, preflop depending on how often multiway action is occurring, raising larger than the standard 4xbb + 1bb might be optimal.
  4. #4
    Thanks. So I'm a little too worried about monsters under the bed by the end of the hand.

    Nice tip BowlBoy about betting if I'd call a bet anyway. I'm still less than a month in here with just over 6k hands to show for it so I'm still figuring out spots that I can get some value out of.

    I do modify my PFR amounts according to the table, but I was relatively new to the table. I've had some tables where my minimum raise was 6xbb to thin the herd.

    It's funny the difference in play from one table to the next. I am only 2-tabling at this point, but on one table I raise of 3xbb UTG clears the way with maybe a flat call from the BB while on the other table, as I said, I may have to double that to get rid of HALF the field.

    Is this a 2NL thing or something that I should be getting used to?
  5. #5
    Stacks's Avatar
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    Im opedipus bitch, the original balla.
    Quote Originally Posted by thedarwinfish
    Thanks. So I'm a little too worried about monsters under the bed by the end of the hand.

    Well, it's very possible that they could have a Qx, 9x hand in their range still, as bad players might just play it this way. It's not very plausible, because it's likely they would bet at some point. So on the river you would ask yourself "Will they call a bet with worse?", and here the answer is yes. You beat everything but Qx, 9x. Ax hands, TT that are still in their range could definitely call a bet. As well as, you will see some villain call with air here and play the board (2 pair, A kicker). So there is definitely value in a bet. If raised, then it's a pretty easy fold, as they aren't likely to bluff here often, and they aren't likely to ever raise a worse hand for value.

    Nice tip BowlBoy about betting if I'd call a bet anyway. I'm still less than a month in here with just over 6k hands to show for it so I'm still figuring out spots that I can get some value out of.

    Betting if you would call a bet isn't the greatest tip. I mean it should be understood that the majority of the villains we will encounter will have a wider calling range than betting range in most posts, as the tend to be more on the passive, calling station side (obv dependent on villain, but the majority). However, you generally want to take the line that involves villain putting money in with the widest range of hands. So say, villain raises preflop, and you call from the BB with AQ. The flop comes A73r. Sure if you check, you are calling a bet. Does this mean you should bet into the preflop raiser? No. The reason being is, he is very likely to cbet this flop with a huge majority (possibly 100%) of his range when checked to. However, if you bet, he is pretty likely to fold all of his air hands (KJ, KT, T9s, etc), and even some marginal made hands (44, 22, etc). So check/calling, or maybe check/raising, gets him to put in money with a wider range, thus building a bigger pot more often with us having more equity.


    I do modify my PFR amounts according to the table, but I was relatively new to the table. I've had some tables where my minimum raise was 6xbb to thin the herd.

    It's funny the difference in play from one table to the next. I am only 2-tabling at this point, but on one table I raise of 3xbb UTG clears the way with maybe a flat call from the BB while on the other table, as I said, I may have to double that to get rid of HALF the field.

    Is this a 2NL thing or something that I should be getting used to?

    Modifying your raise size is situational. Generally I only adjust my raise size based on position. I'll raise 4x + 1bb from EP, and 3x + 1bb from LP. However, there are times when I will adjust my raise size based on players left to act, stack sizes, or even my hand. It's all kind of dependent, and really not a huge deal, as long as it isn't likely to (1) obviously give away your range, or (2) intimately effect your villain's calling range (to a range we don't want).
  6. #6
    Solid. Thanks. That makes a ton of sense.

    I generally check to the raiser in the situation you noted. Times where I may lead out would be if it's a scary board with flush/straight possibilities. If he's drawing to one of those, checks and hits it, I suck. On a dry board, though, I will generally let him lead out. Again, this is player dependent.

    I'm pretty sure I'm not giving anything away by my raising, but it's something I will keep in mind.
  7. #7
    I don't think cbetting or betting turn are bad, but def bet river

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