Was my hand too face up here?

[bjsaust]

PFR is 24/17 with 80% cbet over significant sample, so I dont read his cbet as being as strong as it might be into a multiway pot. He has 50% fold cbet to raise, so I was a bit surprised to see his hand. Was this a case where the board was just so wet he could put me on a draw a heap and make a hero call?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($213.50)
CO ($361.26)
UTG ($104.31)
SB ($133.22)
MP ($258.12)
Button ($401.95)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8, 5
2 folds, CO bets $6, Button calls $6, SB calls $5, Hero calls $4

Flop: ($24) 2, A, 3 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $15, 2 folds, Hero raises $50, CO calls $35

Turn: ($124) 2 (2 players)
Hero bets $157.50 (All-In), CO calls $157.50

River: ($439) J (2 players, 1 all-in)

Total pot: $439

Results:
Hero had 8, 5 (one pair, twos).
CO had 9, A (two pair, Aces and twos).
Outcome: CO won $435.50

[bjsaust]

Meh, 2 is bad card because now my set range is smaller right? I still have a lot of equity though, so I dont want to c/f but either c/c or b/c seems bad too...

I've been called by KK here
it's way better to do this with AJ on this board and to own them

[jyms]

You play the flop just like a draw and he played like he has too. Sets don't shove that turn, if he has a draw he's 20% so why would your set shove. I think you faced up for sure. Great line with a set though

[bikes]

Why did u raise sooo much?

[jyms]

Why did u raise sooo much?

To maximize FE and get the most money in with the most equity he will have in the hand. Getting money in on the turn will suck if he bricks just like he did, and stacks are deep.

[bjsaust]

Raise is only just over 3x and his cbet was on the smallish side. Std raise for me, maybe slightly larger but not much.

I think I should donk this flop and shove over a raise. Its how I'd play a big hand (I wouldn't want this flop to check through ever) and if called I get in with my max equity.

[bigspenda73]

why not lead?

[Parasurama]

what's up with showing results?

[bjsaust]

I think the fact that someone who can apparently fold would call this off with TPWK is relevant. Basically the question is was my play so transparent that A9 is a good call here, or was he just feeling callerish.

I think the fact that someone who can apparently fold would call this off with TPWK is relevant. Basically the question is was my play so transparent that A9 is a good call here, or was he just feeling callerish.

it doesn't surprise me
Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($260.45)
MP ($100)
CO ($170.50)
Button ($100)
SB ($198.10)
Hero (BB) ($125.55)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 10, 8
4 folds, SB bets $4, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($8) 2, A, 9 (2 players)
SB bets $5, Hero raises to $14, SB calls $9

Turn: ($36) Q (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $30, SB calls $30

River: ($96) 10 (2 players)
SB checks, Hero checks

Total pot: $96 | Rake: $3

Results:
SB had K, K (one pair, Kings).
Hero had 10, 8 (one pair, tens).
Outcome: SB won $93

[bspahn]

if we check/call this flop we'll often get a free river card when he has weaker aces because he can put us on AT/AJ here (calling 4ways makes our hand look reasonably strong)

often players tend to semibluff FD's etc by raising huge (trying to get folds) and raising small with monsters (trying to get calls) so we have to ensure we are playing the big hands exactly the same.

on this board would you really ever make this play with AT/AJ/AQ ? my guess is no...

[bjsaust]

I'm not representing AT-AQ. If I did make this play with a made hand, my raise would be within a couple of dollars of the same though.

That said I probably lead my value hands, and leading here would not only be the same (not sure how valid this is since noone on table knows my play well enough to know theres any difference), but would make the hand easier to play all around.

[Fnord]

You're running really fast lines in a game with a HIGH amount of distrust and aggression. Think about this.

What exactly are you representing, read your own lines!

Hand 1: CO shouldn't be bluffing very often into 3! players. Call so you can rep a wider range of hands.

Hand 2: Call flop looking to take this away on the turn. If he's double barreling a wide range from a SB open it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to figure out how to adjust and exploit the shit out of him.

[Da GOAT]

BJ, your raise is way to big imo. If you are called you should not be shoving a brick turn so raise smaller and go for the flop FE. having said that i think c/ring flop is bad. c/c>than leading or c/ring.

[bikes]

Why did u raise sooo much?

To maximize FE and get the most money in with the most equity he will have in the hand. Getting money in on the turn will suck if he bricks just like he did, and stacks are deep.

I mean I know why he did. I just hate that he did.

[bspahn]

I'm not representing AT-AQ. If I did make this play with a made hand, my raise would be within a couple of dollars of the same though.

That said I probably lead my value hands, and leading here would not only be the same (not sure how valid this is since noone on table knows my play well enough to know theres any difference), but would make the hand easier to play all around.

i think you answered it here! if you're not ever making this play with a strong ace, and you're just doing it with sets and draws you probably end up doing way more often with draws (cuz sets are impossible to hit) - if you are fine getting it in on this flop I would LEAD (ie bet/3bet) and play sets/2pr the same.

if you're not repping AT-AQ then it doesn't matter to him whether he has AK or A9

[Marshall28]

I don't like the way you played this on any street.

Fold preflop.

The line you took postflop sucks for any hand you could have. You can never have a balanced range when you take a line like this, so clearly semi-bluffing w/ an unbalanced range is bad right? This line of thought led to someone saying to do this with a set, but obviously if we have a set, on the turn it's quad deuces or 33 for a boat, so you're more interested in inducing bluffs and bad calldowns from draws that are all drawing dead making shoving bad with those hands also.

[bigspenda73]

I kinda like really gay betting the turn and shoving the river after your flop play

[bjsaust]

Thanks guys, lots of good responses.

[nutsinho]

I kinda like really gay betting the turn and shoving the river after your flop play

yea this obviously. this is a basic balance problem. it wouldnt even cross my mind to shove the turn against a handreading regular at any limit. i would either shut down, gaybet turn shove riv, or a v small % of the time (mostly on the worst rivers) gaybet turn give up riv.

[bjsaust]

Yeah, I definitely made the mistake of not considering balance and my own range here. I was just trying to max FE without really thinking about what I represented.

[Renton]

i would just c/f the turn. I don't have an issue with semibluff shoving if the turn wasn't such a total blank like this, so I don't have a huge problem with the flop raise or sizing thereof. I would however lead the flop.

[griffey24]

ugh.. don't like this at all. You rep like nothing, esp after shoving turn, and that 2 is a really bad card.

I'd rather donk lead flop, in a spot where PFR might not cbet into two players.